Katana of the Month - July 2007 - FASHER
 

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Bodyshop Got a tweaked piece of plastic? Some roughed up paint? Here's the place to get some tips on repairing your Suzuki Katana.

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Old 06-16-2010, 10:33 AM   #11
cmurdah
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i sanded my base because i had some bugs that landed in it

VERY light wet sand with 2000 grit..

if im not mistaken, someone did tell me to sand base coat before clear in the thread i made. people are just misinformed. this makes my sig correct i guess
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Old 06-16-2010, 10:34 AM   #12
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If you sand it, you need to lay more base-paint. I'm only an amateur. Teddy and Mike are the real experts.
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Old 06-16-2010, 11:12 AM   #13
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I guess I haven't been paying attention, because I haven't heard anyone sanding their base coat. If I'd noticed, I would have piped up as well. I've NEVER sanded a basecoat, and I'm not sure why anyone would. I guess they're trying to get rid of orange peel before it happens or something?

I know with metallic colors, you CAN'T sand the basecoat. Any sanding destorys the metallic particles that you want, and instead of a sparkling, shiney effect, you just get a dull coat. Not good at all.

To the initial point of the clear not sticking if you sand the base....I think clear-to-basecoat adhesion is due more to the chemical bond between the two, than to the physical roughness of the basecoat. Most paints I use say to allow the basecoat to flash off for 20 minutes, but NO MORE than 24 hours. If you wait more than 24 hours, you THEN have to sand, and respray base before applying any clear. I think the idea is to get the clear on before the base cures, therefore allowing them both to cure together. Solvents intermix and evaporate as one....or something along those lines.
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Old 06-16-2010, 12:14 PM   #14
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well some of those "pro painters" in hotrod paint shops may sand their base (I don't know if they do or not), but you have to take into consideration that the majority of their work is not just standard base coat - clear coat. more often than not it is tri-coats and such....and often their metallic or pearls are in the first coat or two of clear before the final coats of clear.
you see Mike, that's just the thing. Those shops use higher quality, more technically involved paint processes than average Joe. Yet average Joe sees it, and assumes it must be the right way to do it regardless of what he's using for said project. Perception and misinformation aren't always fact, although is often gets misconstrued as such...but you and I already know that...

I saw another post somewhere where someone was kinda bragging on how much clear they put on their plastics, and all I thought was, 'have fun picking up the flakes in a few months...'
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Old 06-16-2010, 02:07 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by tmk7c9 View Post
I guess I haven't been paying attention, because I haven't heard anyone sanding their base coat. If I'd noticed, I would have piped up as well. I've NEVER sanded a basecoat, and I'm not sure why anyone would. I guess they're trying to get rid of orange peel before it happens or something?

I know with metallic colors, you CAN'T sand the basecoat. Any sanding destorys the metallic particles that you want, and instead of a sparkling, shiney effect, you just get a dull coat. Not good at all.

To the initial point of the clear not sticking if you sand the base....I think clear-to-basecoat adhesion is due more to the chemical bond between the two, than to the physical roughness of the basecoat. Most paints I use say to allow the basecoat to flash off for 20 minutes, but NO MORE than 24 hours. If you wait more than 24 hours, you THEN have to sand, and respray base before applying any clear. I think the idea is to get the clear on before the base cures, therefore allowing them both to cure together. Solvents intermix and evaporate as one....or something along those lines.
yes, you are right, there is a bonding action going on between the two. and even though it isn't stated as fact, I truly believe the rougher surfaces aids in this "reaction". you know....the clear can easily mix with the base when the base has "pores", so to speak. if you sand the base smooth, well then the clear just has to work that much harder to meld with the base coat.

think of your clear as a permanent marker. if you write on paper with a permanent marker, it is permanent. but if you write on glass, or say plastic, then with some rubbing with your thumb, you can remove some of that marker. the marker soaks into the pores of the paper. glass does not have these pores.

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you see Mike, that's just the thing. Those shops use higher quality, more technically involved paint processes than average Joe. Yet average Joe sees it, and assumes it must be the right way to do it regardless of what he's using for said project. Perception and misinformation aren't always fact, although is often gets misconstrued as such...but you and I already know that...

I saw another post somewhere where someone was kinda bragging on how much clear they put on their plastics, and all I thought was, 'have fun picking up the flakes in a few months...'
That's right Teddy...I agree with you totally. I guess we just need to speak up more and help get some of these beginners on the right track.

Last edited by Mojoe; 06-16-2010 at 02:07 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 06-16-2010, 02:52 PM   #16
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Well since I am definately a beginner (I would like to some day take some kind of auto painting classes) what do you guys mean by letting the paint flash for 20 minutes?

By adding clear coat with in a 24 hour period allow the end result to shine better than if you waited longer? Maybe thats where I went wrong with my tail.
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Old 06-16-2010, 02:55 PM   #17
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If you wait too long to clear, the base paint starts to cure, and the clear won't adhear properly.

"Flash" is the time it takes the paint to go from wet, to not wet. Usually about 20-40 minutes depending on the paint and mix.
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:03 PM   #18
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so if the flash is twenty minutes than you clear it at 10? i was always told to sand the base too but that wasnt on this forum it was by my grnad dad maybe a i misunderstood him.
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:09 PM   #19
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If you wait too long to clear, the base paint starts to cure, and the clear won't adhear properly.

"Flash" is the time it takes the paint to go from wet, to not wet. Usually about 20-40 minutes depending on the paint and mix.
well actually, I have sprayed the base on bike parts over a period of time, and have on more than one occasion applied the clear weeks after the fact....sometimes even months, and never had an issue.

Flash is when the chemicals like reducer have all evaporated out of the base coat. essentially, it means when it is dry.
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Old 06-16-2010, 03:12 PM   #20
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so if the flash is twenty minutes than you clear it at 10? i was always told to sand the base too but that wasnt on this forum it was by my grnad dad maybe a i misunderstood him.

First off, you should follow whatever directions are on the paint that you buy, not some forum advice. There are lots of knowledgable people here, but every type/brand of paint is different, and needs to be applied differently. Do whatever the directions tell you to do. Paint manufactuers deal with paint for a living (duh) and noone knows how to apply their product better than they do.

However, if the flash time is 20 minutes, you would typically want to spray clear after that. Ex, flash time is 20 minutes, wait 40, and then clear. Note that these times may be different depending on how thick of a coat you put on.

Your granddad may have been right, and he may have made some great paint jobs by sanding the base coat. However, he also may have experimented a great deal to get it right, he might have just gotten lucky, and it most definately was a different type of paint than what we're using now (paint has changed a lot because of environmental concerns). For you to do it would definately be a taking a chance, and I doubt it would come out as well as if you had just followed the directions on the can.
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