[Kreylyn]

Start at the battery Postive terminal. Use a digital volt meter. Check the wire from connection to connection. At a connection, check going into the connection, and directly out of the connection.

You can get a digital volt meter at walmart for less than $10... for $15 you can get a pretty awesome one in a kit with extras.

By starting at the positive terminal and going from there, you will see every step down point that the voltage takes.

It's going to basically run from the battery, to the ignition switch, back to the CDI, out of the cdi to the coils.

If you see the battery is putting out 13.4v on the digital display for example, then put the tester probe on the wire of the connector to the battery. If you see anything less than 13.4... that's one spot your loosing V. Clean the connection to improve the issue.

Move to the next end of the wire... that is probably going to be the red on the connection under the tank for the ignition switch. Check power going into the connector (red wire). If it's lower than the prior point checked, by any significant amount, you will need to inspect the full run of the wire to see if there is damaged/burned spots. This may mean you unwrap the old electrical tape or plastic that has it bundled up. Repair any issues if they are major.

The primary reason I suggest a digital meter is because you can see minor drops alot better. While .2v isn't much of a drop in a single location, if your checking 20 spots and they all vary .2-.3v drop... well.. simple math means your going to end up with a pretty significant total drop in the end.

Continue on with your tracing ... remember at every connection point to check BOTH in and out at the connection. If the connection is not good, that can cause a major drop.

Krey

[DocCannabis]

Start at the battery Postive terminal. Use a digital volt meter. Check the wire from connection to connection. At a connection, check going into the connection, and directly out of the connection.

You can get a digital volt meter at walmart for less than $10... for $15 you can get a pretty awesome one in a kit with extras.

By starting at the positive terminal and going from there, you will see every step down point that the voltage takes.

It's going to basically run from the battery, to the ignition switch, back to the CDI, out of the cdi to the coils.

If you see the battery is putting out 13.4v on the digital display for example, then put the tester probe on the wire of the connector to the battery. If you see anything less than 13.4... that's one spot your loosing V. Clean the connection to improve the issue.

Move to the next end of the wire... that is probably going to be the red on the connection under the tank for the ignition switch. Check power going into the connector (red wire). If it's lower than the prior point checked, by any significant amount, you will need to inspect the full run of the wire to see if there is damaged/burned spots. This may mean you unwrap the old electrical tape or plastic that has it bundled up. Repair any issues if they are major.

The primary reason I suggest a digital meter is because you can see minor drops alot better. While .2v isn't much of a drop in a single location, if your checking 20 spots and they all vary .2-.3v drop... well.. simple math means your going to end up with a pretty significant total drop in the end.

Continue on with your tracing ... remember at every connection point to check BOTH in and out at the connection. If the connection is not good, that can cause a major drop.

Krey

Excellent, that's what I had in mind pretty much now that I've had a few hours to look everything over while looking at the wiring diagram and actually learning what each of them connector/boxes/relays and so on really are... Can't say thanks enough to you guys!!

I'll either go buy a digital tester or borrow one, I know several people with them I'm just not the borrowing type until it comes down to necessity. I'll start tracing like mentioned tomorrow afternoon and hopefully have some good news to report back tomorrow night!

[TRPUT]

As usual, Krey has you covered.

[DocCannabis]

So I finally got to do the testing, I didn't go in depth as was suggested but I think you will see why in a second, I just wanted to feed these results to people who are helping in the issue so far and gather your thoughts and suggestions. With a Fluke 77 Series digital multimeter.....

Ok, I started by making sure the Battery was at a good charge.
12.6 v = Check! (Right?)

Just for sh*ts and giggles I test the Fuse Box
12.3v

Ignition Switch
11.3v

Ignitor/Ignition/CDI
11.2v

Coils
10.2v


Seems my testing with analog was either far off, or something I've fumbled with has changed.



I'm tired..... I'm going to bed

Thanks in advance to anyone with suggestions.

[DocCannabis]

Bump

[Kreylyn]

So I finally got to do the testing, I didn't go in depth as was suggested but I think you will see why in a second, I just wanted to feed these results to people who are helping in the issue so far and gather your thoughts and suggestions. With a Fluke 77 Series digital multimeter.....

Ok, I started by making sure the Battery was at a good charge.
12.6 v = Check! (Right?)

Just for sh*ts and giggles I test the Fuse Box
12.3v

Ignition Switch
11.3v

Ignitor/Ignition/CDI
11.2v

Coils
10.2v


Seems my testing with analog was either far off, or something I've fumbled with has changed.



I'm tired..... I'm going to bed

Thanks in advance to anyone with suggestions.

Full battery should be 13.4v approx.

The 1v drop at the ignition switch is probably the headlight. Reach under the front and unplug the light and test again to confirm, but just turning the key on (and thus the light on) is generally going to drop at least 1v-1.5v.

Not much of a drop at the ignitor... but is that in or out that your checking? If in, you need to check the out. If out, then your drop is the wires between the ignitor and the coils, and that is a major issue. That is also very easily solved with the relay mod.

10.2v = your bike will not start with the starter when the engine has not be run prior. You can bump start it (push it off) probably with that no problem, and it will probably start right up when the engine has been run for a bit to warm it up if you get it started. But... it's going to be a major pain to start the next day with the starter every time.

In addtion, if you bump your output to the 13.4v amount... your still going to be seeing about enough drop to put the coils at close enough to 10.5v... what I would call the absolutely bare minimal needed to start the bike with the electrical starter... that it is always going to be tempremental on starting and very dependant on ambient temp as to... if it will or wont.

Krey

[boomer_95]

a std battery is 12.6+V. an MF battery is 12.8+V for full charge his is fine if its a std battery like my Kat was... if its a sealed MF battery, it needs a charge

from yuasa

Methods of Checking Battery Condition
State of Syringe Digital 5-Ball
Charge - Hydrometer - Voltmeter - Hydrometer
100% Charged
w/Sulfate Stop - 1.280 - 12.80v - 5 Balls Floating
100% Charged - 1.265 - 12.60v - 4 Balls Floating
75% Charged - 1.210 - 12.40v - 3 Balls Floating
50% Charged - 1.160 - 12.10v - 2 Balls Floating
25% Charged - 1.120 - 11.90v - 1 Balls Floating
0% Charged less than 1.100 less than 11.80v 0 Balls Floating

it sounds like you have some major voltage drop going on somewhere. either in a specific spot or throughout the wire harness

[DocCannabis]

Full battery should be 13.4v approx.

The 1v drop at the ignition switch is probably the headlight. Reach under the front and unplug the light and test again to confirm, but just turning the key on (and thus the light on) is generally going to drop at least 1v-1.5v.

Not much of a drop at the ignitor... but is that in or out that your checking? If in, you need to check the out. If out, then your drop is the wires between the ignitor and the coils, and that is a major issue. That is also very easily solved with the relay mod.

10.2v = your bike will not start with the starter when the engine has not be run prior. You can bump start it (push it off) probably with that no problem, and it will probably start right up when the engine has been run for a bit to warm it up if you get it started. But... it's going to be a major pain to start the next day with the starter every time.

In addtion, if you bump your output to the 13.4v amount... your still going to be seeing about enough drop to put the coils at close enough to 10.5v... what I would call the absolutely bare minimal needed to start the bike with the electrical starter... that it is always going to be tempremental on starting and very dependant on ambient temp as to... if it will or wont.

Krey

My battery will charge over 13v, but once I shut off the charger it fairly quickly drops back to about 12.6v

When I tested the Ignitor I tested the bottom plug with the orange/white wire. I'm not really sure on how else to approach that (I have to admit I've done very little electrical in my life whether it be automotive or otherwise.) I'm assuming it was power going into the ignitor seeing as it had power in the plug while unhooked from the ignitor. And I don't know how to test the Outgoing seeing as its a plug-in connector, any suggestions on how to do that??


Edit: (Way off subject I guess but.....) How do most of you guys manage to push start the bike?? I was told it was near impossible due to the compression :

a std battery is 12.6+V. an MF battery is 12.8+V for full charge his is fine if its a std battery like my Kat was... if its a sealed MF battery, it needs a charge

from yuasa


it sounds like you have some major voltage drop going on somewhere. either in a specific spot or throughout the wire harness

Ummm its a battery Just a normal MC battery from NAPA as it was the closest and ONLY battery I could find come time to buy one on a payday.

[boomer_95]

My battery will charge over 13v, but once I shut off the charger it fairly quickly drops back to about 12.6v

When I tested the Ignitor I tested the bottom plug with the orange/white wire. I'm not really sure on how else to approach that (I have to admit I've done very little electrical in my life whether it be automotive or otherwise.) I'm assuming it was power going into the ignitor seeing as it had power in the plug while unhooked from the ignitor. And I don't know how to test the Outgoing seeing as its a plug-in connector, any suggestions on how to do that??





Ummm its a battery Just a normal MC battery from NAPA as it was the closest and ONLY battery I could find come time to buy one on a payday.

probably just a std battery.. if you can fill the cells, and its clear/white, then 12.6+V is right

[DocCannabis]

probably just a std battery.. if you can fill the cells, and its clear/white, then 12.6+V is right

Yup! couldn't describe it better myself Good to know its a good battery, I was beginning to wonder if I was going to have to take it to NAPA and find out who's ass to shove it up. It was bought in October, so it had better be good

[Kreylyn]

When I tested the Ignitor I tested the bottom plug with the orange/white wire. I'm not really sure on how else to approach that (I have to admit I've done very little electrical in my life whether it be automotive or otherwise.) I'm assuming it was power going into the ignitor seeing as it had power in the plug while unhooked from the ignitor. And I don't know how to test the Outgoing seeing as its a plug-in connector, any suggestions on how to do that??

Sure. Use the plug to determine which prong matches to the orange/white stripe out wires. Unplug and check by putting the test probe on the out bound orange/white coresponding tab that the plug/wire connects to on the ignitor. That way you can see if there is any power drop in the ignitor.

Edit: (Way off subject I guess but.....) How do most of you guys manage to push start the bike?? I was told it was near impossible due to the compression :

Put bike in neutral. Push bike to slow run speed, jump on bike, upshift to 2nd, dump clutch... if your on a down hill slope makes it really easy...

In addition you do all the normal stuff like ... choke if it's a cold engine, so on...

krey

[DocCannabis]

Sure. Use the plug to determine which prong matches to the orange/white stripe out wires. Unplug and check by putting the test probe on the out bound orange/white coresponding tab that the plug/wire connects to on the ignitor. That way you can see if there is any power drop in the ignitor.




Put bike in neutral. Push bike to slow run speed, jump on bike, upshift to 2nd, dump clutch... if your on a down hill slope makes it really easy...

In addition you do all the normal stuff like ... choke if it's a cold engine, so on...

krey

Ohhh! and Ohhh! Ok!.... Was thinking about wires instead of the Ignitor itself

[92xjunker]

I would do the relay mod to be sure and try to start.

[DocCannabis]

I would do the relay mod to be sure and try to start.

Yea, it will take me a bit to get to do it but I was pretty convinced it was a wire/harness issue. I haven't even tried to start it since I done the test with the analog meter... Everyone around me in person wants to bet towards coils, (Mostly due to someone testing the "Coil Resistances" which I know nothing about) The people helping here I was eventually in agreement with about the loss of power.... So I don't know what's going to happen next.

The coils should be here in a few days, if not by Saturday they should show up on Monday. If they don't work out I'll get the relay and attempt therelay mod, I've never done an electrical modification before so I'm a little nervous about that...

Has anyone heard from Odachi since I hijacked his thread?? I just didn't want to repost a recentissue already being discussed... Would like to know if he resolved his issues though...

[92xjunker]

you could PM him. To test if it's your coils run a + wire from the battery to the pins with the orange wires, minus the orange wires, you have to split the wire 1 into 2 like a "y".
then try to start. if it will start or tries to start easier then you can assume the coils are good. then do the relay mod. nothing changes then you can change them. I'm betting that it will start or attempt to start easier.