Clutchless shifting

[TurboMike]

I'm a fairly green rider and was whining to a friend (who rides) about what a slow shifter I am and how it screws me up coming into a turn too fast and I need to brake and downshift before the turn. So he says "you use the clutch? I never use my clutch except for 1st gear".

So feeling it out today, upshifting any gear above 2 without the clutch feels amazing. I've been racing cars for years and its SO weird shifting without the clutch but it just rev matches so well on an upshift, felt great. Then I kind of attempted downshifting. Didnt feel like the bike wanted to do it so I ended my experimenting and poked around here. Found some year old posts where half of everyone always uses the clutch, the other half sometimes wont use it on an upshift, and a few people claiming to downshift clutchless as well.

I know nothing feels better in a car like a perfect rev blip while downshifting, but thats using a clutch. How do you clutchlessly downshift it on a bike? Or is that only on my more racey bike tranny with straighter cut gears and the Kat tranny isnt good for it?

[woppini]

In all honesty, i wouldnt not downshift on a bike without using the clutch. Remember, smooth clutch control will save your butt. If you down shift with no clutch you risk chirping the back tire. On a car, its fun.. on a bike, it upsets the suspension and your line going into a turn. If the back tire slides out, game over. As far as upshifting, you can do it, but its hard on the tranny cause of the shock if you dont hit it just right.

[The CyberPoet]

IMHO:
Depends on whether you are willing to rebuild your tranny every X number of uses, like a racebike team mechanic would for a true track star. It might be every 6,000th shift or every 100,000th, but sooner or later, the physics involved will make the bike's components pay the price. If you're the type of rider who gets a brand new bike every 12 to 24 months (and depending on your riding type & schedule), you may never reach complete component failure before resale, but that tranny won't be the same clean/crisp shifting experience it was when the bike was new due to sprocket teeth rounding on the gear interfaces (brand irrelevant).

According to Suzuki documents submitted for a NHTSA investigation into transmission failures, no transmission that Suzuki builds for the masses is expressly designed for clutch-less shifting in either/both directions on a regular basis, although Suzuki acknowledges that there will always be riders who do it regularly anyway, and that it is a necessary evil in certain emergency situations (specifically if the clutch cable snaps while already riding at speed). Suzuki has even gone as far as to redesign the 2nd gear spline depths on the 750 GSXR to make the engagement area 0.7mm deeper than previously (start of Nov 2000 for the '01 model year) to help offset this kind of failure. See: KR - Sales Figures & Gear Failure rates for '99 - '01 GSXF and GSXR 750 motorcycles for more dry reading on the matter (but good statistical numbers & engineering analysis).

This little segment specifically from that NHTSA investigation I think bears the most merit to answer your question (Suzuki sez - excerpt):
...motorcycle that has this condition must be subjected to repeated improper and/or abusive shifting (i.e. - incomplete shifting or shifting without using the clutch).

Thus we can conclude that Suzuki's stance is that shifting without use of the clutch is abusive by nature, something echoed by the owners manual as well. And quite a few people around here who have been bitten by the 2nd gear demon (either their own doing, or by buying a bike with a borderline failure already occuring at time of purchase) are likely to agree.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

[BraadaJim]

Shifting without the clutch is like screwing a whore without a condom. Sure you can do it but bad things are gonna happen.

[WildKat]

I'm a fairly green rider and was whining to a friend (who rides) about what a slow shifter I am and how it screws me up coming into a turn too fast and I need to brake and downshift before the turn

That right there tells me that you really just need more practice..a new rider should be utilizing the methods of proper shifting over and over and over and doing them correctly every time you get on the road. Dont worry about how fast you shift, the speed comes with time and repetition. You need to learn how to properly ride and operate the bike while you're still fairly new at riding to reinforce every procedure in your head so it becomes second nature. Sure you can speedshift, but why? The clutch is there for a reason so why not use it? We as riders can develop bad habits over time as it is, so do yourself a favor and learn everything about your bike and its operation and proper riding techniques early on.

Remember you need to set your speed for the turn in advance, so being new, if that means you have to slow down sooner to set your entry speed, then by all means do it. Dont worry about how fast shift, just worry about shifting correctly and setting the correct line to safely and efficiently navigate the corner. You'll get faster at shifting over time, dont worry about rushing it.

Also consider taking the MSF beginners course, if you havent already its the best thing you can do for yourself as a new rider.

[BobKat2002]

There!

That's what I was wondering about last week when we were discussing this very thing.


I shalt no longer shift Clutchless.

[TurboMike]

Ok, looks like "clutchless shifting" is not for me.

And thanks to this site and you guys, I wont be "clueless riding" either. Well not as much anyway.

[slayergsxf1]

Shifting without the clutch is like screwing a whore without a condom. Sure you can do it but bad things are gonna happen.

That is the best comparison I've ever come across...Use your clutch,ever wake up in the morning next to some chick you wish you didnt?think about it....

[BobKat2002]

Shifting without the clutch is like screwing a whore without a condom. Sure you can do it but bad things are gonna happen.

That is the best comparison I've ever come across...,ever wake up in the morning next to some chick you wish you didnt?think about it....

Morning?
What are you talkin' about.

Bam - Done - Gone.

[slayergsxf1]

Shifting without the clutch is like screwing a whore without a condom. Sure you can do it but bad things are gonna happen.

That is the best comparison I've ever come across...,ever wake up in the morning next to some chick you wish you didnt?think about it....

Morning?
What are you talkin' about.Sad but toooooomany! I always shift with my clutch though...

Bam - Done - Gone.

[WildKat]

Shifting without the clutch is like screwing a whore without a condom. Sure you can do it but bad things are gonna happen.

That is the best comparison I've ever come across...,ever wake up in the morning next to some chick you wish you didnt?think about it....

Morning?
What are you talkin' about.

Bam - Done - Gone.

There you go, don't stick around to see what you might not wanna see in the daylight

[slayergsxf1]

Shifting without the clutch is like screwing a whore without a condom. Sure you can do it but bad things are gonna happen.

That is the best comparison I've ever come across...,ever wake up in the morning next to some chick you wish you didnt?think about it....

Morning?
What are you talkin' about.

Bam - Done - Gone.

There you go, don't stick around to see what you might not wanna see in the daylight

Giddy upon that!

[WildKat]

So now we're talking about clutchless shifting hookers

[The CyberPoet]

So now we're talking about clutchless shifting hookers

Clutching Shifty Hookers?

=-= The CyberPoet

[JohnE1000]

Shifting without the clutch is like screwing a whore without a condom. Sure you can do it but bad things are gonna happen.

Jim said it all...