Full Service...this a good price?

[gsxr150]

My Kat has 5000 miles on it, and who knows how well it was taken care of by previous owners. Anyhow I want to get her in for a full service so I called the local Suzuki shop. They quoted me $240 for a regular tune-up and $320 for a major tune-up. The basic includes things like oil change, clutch adjustment, chain adjust, clean and sync carbs, overall check.

The major includes new plugs, change of all fluids, and valve adjustment. Pricewise they wanted $176 just for the valve adjustment so it appears to be a good deal to pay the $320.

Here's my question. One at 5500 miles should I have the valves adjusted? Secondly is $320 a good price, or is that pretty high?

[bobs]

When I buy a new-to-me vehicle I always do all the scheduled maintenance items, regardless whether the odometer or the seller says they've been done recently. This lets me be sure it's all done (and done right), which gives me a baseline for future use. It also lets me familiarize myself with the vehicle and "bond" with it.

Fluid replacement is always a good idea - engine/trans oil and bleed the brakes. A look at the plugs will tell you about the carburetion. Many items are "inspect and adjust if necessary" (e.g. chain tension) so they become just a check-mark on the list. But that's a good reminder to check for sharktooth sprockets etc.

If the valve lash hasn't been set since the bike left the factory, it certainly can't hurt to adjust them now.

[steves]

Most of the cost is probably labor.
Fluids are what? Oil and break fluid? Those are cheap. A new set of NGKs isn't that expensive.

If you are able to do the work yourself, I would say do the work yourself. If you aren't comfortable, then pay the dealer to do it (especially if it gives you piece of mind).

I was determined from day 1 to do all the work on my bike myself simply because if there is a problem then it's my fault there's a problem not some guy at the shop.

[gsxr150]

Yeah, I've done valves on my ATV before and what not, but never on a motorcycle. It's almost worth it to have them tear evertying apart and do all the work for that price.

[The CyberPoet]

IMHO:

The minor service is way over-priced.

The major service is right on the money.

Why do I say this?
Because the minor service is an oil change, a few bolt torque settings and a chain cleaning plus safety inspection. Since this only involves removing the lower fairing (belly pan), it's not very time intensive -- it should be about 40 minutes by the standard Suzuki time charts at the standard service rate (varies by shop, but typical is $60 to $85 per hour, depending heavily on the area, their rental overhead, etc), plus the cost of oil ($15 - $45 depending on brand) & filter (under $10 for OEM). That puts the minor service at under $130 including supplies -- but it's a service that any Joe Schmoo can do at home with minimal tools and little skill, provided he invests in two tools (torque wrench, oil cap wrench) or one tool and one permanent modification (fumoto oil drain valve , oil cap wrench). Sidenote: I sell both the filters and the oil cap wrench for them very cheaply.

The major service is spot-on and represents a lot more work, including stripping all the forward fairings off, opening up the valve covers, measuring and adjusting the valves (a good shop includes a carb synchronization for free, which should always be done whenever the valves are adjusted), replacing the spark plugs, an air filter cleaning/inspection, plus all the stuff in the minor service. Since just removing and reinstalling the complete fairings takes about 40 minutes "by the book" (i.e. - by the Suzuki-provided time-reference manual), virtually all the cost is labor related. Some shops will let you have a cheaper price if you bring them the bike already stripped of the fairings. Again, this is work that can be done yourself, but I always recommend the very first valve adjustment be done at a shop unless you are already a skilled mechanic -- so someone who knows their stuff can eyeball the inside of your engine closely in case there are damages or unusual wear issues. From that point on, I recommend learning to do it yourself -- the specialty tools requried are a valve adjustment tappet driver (I sell these for about $7 delivered in the USA), the same torque wrench & oil filter cap you needed for the oil change, a pair of feeler gauges (about $8 for the pair, ones with a 25 degree bend in them are more convenient), plus metric allen key wrenches and a spark plug socket wrench (both of which are in the stock bike toolkit, but I would recommend getting better ones, such as T-handled allen keys). I even have a pictorial set-by-step adjustment instructions on my website written up by Trinc to help guide you through it.

Finally:
You bought the bike used and unless you have confirmed evidence that the initial valve adjustment was done at 600 miles (receipt for about $320 or shop records), I highly recommend that you have a major service done now instead of waiting to 7500 miles (do an oil change again at 7500, then go back to the standard maint schedule as per the owner's manual). If you do have proof the valves were adjusted at 600 miles, and the oil was changed at 3500, then smile and wait until 7500 miles to have the major service done.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[TemtnF8]

Also keep in mind that a very large portion of the costs you're being quoted for this service is to remove and re-install fairings. If you're comfortable doing that part yourself you'll save 45 minutes of labor on both ends of the service. At $50+ per hour you're looking at like $75 minimum.

[gsxr150]

Cyber, thanks for the great reply. That explains everything. To be honest I would like to do some of the maintance myself, but having them look over the entire bike is important. I have no idea what was done with the bike before I bought it. I don't think that guy did the correct maintance. The oil looks like cra* right now too. Very dirty...

As far as taking off the plastics, yeah...they said no to that. The service manager said it would be less than $40 off. For $20 bucks I might as well have them do it.

[The CyberPoet]

The oil looks like cra* right now too. Very dirty...

KNOW THIS:
Because of the design of the engine, an oil change only swaps out about 65-75% of the oil in the engine. This is because there are lots of places oil gets stored that won't drain (such as the oil cooler, parts of the tranny, etc). As a result, your brand new oil may appear dirty again in short order. The only way around it is to drain the cooler manually (ups the percentage to about 90%) and/or do another oil change in short order (no sense in replacing the filter at the 2nd oil change).
Suzuki changed their house-label motor oil in late '05 to being an API SL rated motor oil. SL-rated oils are not compatible with the Katana engine, and most shops are unaware of this. Ask specifically if the shop is using Suzuki brand oil -- if it is, pay the extra to grab some better oil off the shelf and have them use that during the oil change (seek out a 10w40 oil that is JASO-MA AND API SF/SG rated). There are a number of threads on KR with which oils meet this combination of requirements, including Castrol ACT/Evo, Castrol GPS (which is what I use), Mobil 1 MX4T, virtually all Motorex offerings, etc.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

[JohnE1000]

while we are on the subject. What type of tool do I need for carb sync?

[The CyberPoet]

while we are on the subject. What type of tool do I need for carb sync?

Um... it's called a Carb Sync Tool.

There are several varieties on the market. I classify them into 5 types:

(A) Home-built. Cost: $4 - $30. Downside is requires at least a 1 story garage wall to dedicate to it. Search the web or KR for details.

(B) Dial-Gauge-based. Costs vary widely, from $25 to $150, depending on quality, brand. Downside is gauges tend to differenciate their values as they age, so in five years, the gauges may not be reading evenly given the same amount of vacuum to each gauge.

(C) Mercury-based. Cost: $47 to $80 depending on brand, size, etc. MotionPro is the preferred brand. Downside is mercury is poisonous and can leak if tool is not stored correctly. Still the best choice in the price-range, IMHO, and will always read accurately if you don't spill the liquids.

(D) Solid-Slug-based. Rather than using liquids, these gauges use solid metal slugs. Morgan CarbTuneII is the preferred brand/type (this is what I have and use). Price varies with exchange rates, from $90 - $150 on the Morgan, $270+ for the Suzuki-brand one. Advantage is that it's an once-in-a-lifetime purchase and will last pretty much forever (can be disassembled, cleaned, reassembled if necessary), plus will always read true. Downside is that the dollar is particularly weak right now, so prices are up (they're manufactured overseas). Suzuki's house-brand carb sync is this basic design as well.

(E) Electronic. These use electronic pressure sensors and sometimes have on-screen guides to help you. Expensive ($600 - $2500) and only make sense in a pro-level shop staffed by monkeys, IMHO (since there's only 4 screws to an adjustment, just how much on-screen help could you possibly need?).

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet