Potential Katana Rider

[PerfectCreature]

Hey, posting in from the north cold state. Pretty cold right now.
Been surfacing around the net and talking to a couple people and am interested in a Katana. Ive found one I am pretty interested in, but am unsure what to offer. He's wanting about 3k. I show that NADA guides has them listed as 2900 for clean retail, and 1900 for clean trade in.
Only thing I know is that tires have about 3k in tread, it has 8900 miles, the crabs were cleaned last year by the person by the owner. Valves were adjusted when it has a jet kit put in about 7 years ago. I think he said it has an aftermarket exhaust. Other then nothing has been done.
What can I expect to have to replace and or do to this bike to help me with the negotiating?
I really like the look and feel of the bike, I haven't been able to see it in person yet, so I want to be prepared.


I go to take my permit course in a few week's, and already have my helmet (Fly Racing Paradigm) and a set of gloves (Alpinestars Scheme--made of Kevlar so it should hold up nice) and am just waiting to get a good deal on a nice protective jacket.


Anyway, that's my story. I hope to become an owner of a Katana very soon, but we will see. I am very new to the world of bikes, and have far more experience mechanically, with cars so any tips would be helpful.

[rschlegel]

What year is the bike?
It seems that pricing depends on where you live. I am in Colorado and just got my Katana last August for $1700 with 11,400 miles all stock '98 600 with minor cosmetic damage from what seems like a low speed oops ( can't tell from 15 feet away ). I was worried about it only being a 600 but after 4,000 miles in the saddle I know it is a keeper.
Good luck. I hope this is helpful.
Two main pieces of gear I have and love,
Tourmaster transition jacket
Klim Overland pants
Cabela's heated fleece vest ( rechargable batteries )

[PerfectCreature]

Its a 2004. Ive been looking for good starter bike, but have been coming up pretty dry. I realize this is not the best choice, but I have yet to find any used 250s or 300s. No one seems to sell hem in my area.
While I like the bike, and the price could be good, the reading on the site that you guys have has me double thinking on getting it.


The owner did mention it has scrapes and what not from drops, he said the forks are still sealed, but from the factory. I don't really believe that, but maybe. Yoshimura exhaust, and stage 1 jet kit is what is listed.
Says Metzler me6 tires about 3500 miles ago.




Ive ridden a few dirt bikes, but can't really remember how long its been, so that wont really do me any good.


I was told that the 750s are fast, but bogged down by the weight to be reasonable, is that true?

[Purplehaze]

If you're looking to get a good deal on leathers consider reading over my thread about Dennis Kirk in the Vendor Rantings section. They'll price match nearly anything. I was able to skim off alot of money on my gear.

Starting on a Kat is no problem. It has the power to punch you in the back of the head but it's still reasonable -- Just take it slow.


750's can be as properly quick as any other bike, it just depends on the setup of ignition and fuel systems. Other bikes will let tweaking do more for you. A Kat will probably only gain negligible performance from changes (assuming starting with a good running condition).

Overall it's not necessarily the engine size, but the power to weight ratio and other suspension settings and mainly the rider that allows a bike to be quick. Common acceptance is that a lighter bike (think 250-500) is quicker in the corners than a rather heavier one which can usually blast on the straights.

EDIT (re-read the first post):

Luckily on a bike it's pretty easy to look over components that may need work. Bring a short checklist if you want -- he should have no problem with you looking it over for a bit.

Ensure when you arrive the bike isn't warmed up, or running, or on a tender. Feel the exhaust headers for any heat.
If he's warmed it up or had it on a tender it could indicate a carb setup/dirty issue or a ignition system/battery issue respectively. With any luck he'll put it out by the curb for you to look it over a bit before ringing the doorbell. If that's the case or during your inspection look under it for any drips or leaking.

When he does start it for you or you start it a proper carb setup and battery outputting proper voltages should have it crank over in just a few cranks.

When you go to look at it look at common maintenance items: Look over the Chain and Sprocket for wear, inspect the forks for leaking -- consider replacing the fluid anyways if it hasn't been done (Just did this, feels amazing on the front end now), check the tire for even wear and tread, for patchwork.

Request to take off the oil cap to the crankcase and smell the oil. (THIS IS A BIG ONE) If it smells of fuel the float system is botched in some way. If that's the case it'll need carb work/parts/adjusting and new oil ONCE it's fixed. Check for a clean and smooth rev clearly to redline. If it doesn't it could indicate a carburetor issue.

Check the brake discs for scratching or grooved surface. As the bike rolls forward and back and the engine is off listen carefully for any scraping sounds or just take of the dust covers and inspect the pads. If it sounds like metal it could indicate metal-to-metal brakes. Other dragging sounds could be dragging brake pads. Should not be an effort to push the bike around. Take a look at the brake fluid through the sight glasses. If it's syrup it'll need to be replaced and bled.

I can guarantee you that valve adjustment that was done 7 years ago is now out-of-spec. You'll probably have to do them. I'd suggest doing them regardless of what any previous owner says and regardless of what bike you buy. I've personally made a detailed write-up that should cross over fairly well for a 2004 Kat. Trust me, the job is much easier than one would've thought.

Everything I've listed will literally take 5 minutes tops and save you tons of nasty surprises.
Most of the things I mentioned, by the way, will make you fail a state inspection (ask me how I know)


As for the actual purchase, most of the things I mentioned are bargaining chips. Moreover the body damage mentioned could be a way to get a buck or two off. If the mirrors or indicators got cracked replacing them can be a bit pricey as well.

I would go to look at the bike with $2600 or $2700 in my pocket. He's listed it at 3k because he wants about $2700. As you try to reach a settlement if you find anything you feel justifies a haggle remember money talks. If you're holding the money it can be a bit influence. Don't haggle without it in sight.

[PerfectCreature]

Okay, I see. Ive been looking around and found a GSXR600 a 2003, with 17,000 miles. When I looked it up, I was surprised to see it worth so much more then the newer 750?
Why is that?

Ive heard of denniskirk before, I'm not sure if I want the leather or textile as my climate is very temperate, it could be low 60s one day and the next day high 80s;

[shpielers]

GSXR is basically a race bike. It's classified as a sport bike while the katanas are classified as sport touring. Just because 2 bikes have the same size engine does not mean they will perform the same. The GSXR probably makes around 130hp. A 750 Kat makes ~90. The GSXR has different geometry, so it handles better, but the Kat is more comfortable for rides lasting longer than about...oh...8 seconds. Kats are good at everything, excellent at none, last forever, and easy to work on, cheap to maintain and insure. Gsxrs are more expensive to insure, more likely to get you killed if you're just learning, tend to not last as long, but they haul ass and canyon carving will feel like a roller coaster on crack. Which bike is better for you really just depends in what you're looking for. Honestly, I'd recommend NOT starting with a GSXR. You'll most likely go down while learning, having an older/cheaper bike when that happens makes it hurt less. Start on something a little more mild mannered (I'd recommend the 600 Kat) and upgrade to one later if you're so inclined. I'd recommend a 250 for leaning on over that, but if you can't find one...600kats still go plenty fast. Top out around ~130, and hit 60 mph about as fast as a stock base 'Vet from the same year. Whatever you end up getting, have fun and stay safe!

[rschlegel]

GSXR is basically a race bike. It's classified as a sport bike while the katanas are classified as sport touring. Just because 2 bikes have the same size engine does not mean they will perform the same. The GSXR probably makes around 130hp. A 750 Kat makes ~90. The GSXR has different geometry, so it handles better, but the Kat is more comfortable for rides lasting longer than about...oh...8 seconds. Kats are good at everything, excellent at none, last forever, and easy to work on, cheap to maintain and insure. Gsxrs are more expensive to insure, more likely to get you killed if you're just learning, tend to not last as long, but they haul ass and canyon carving will feel like a roller coaster on crack. Which bike is better for you really just depends in what you're looking for. Honestly, I'd recommend NOT starting with a GSXR. You'll most likely go down while learning, having an older/cheaper bike when that happens makes it hurt less. Start on something a little more mild mannered (I'd recommend the 600 Kat) and upgrade to one later if you're so inclined. I'd recommend a 250 for leaning on over that, but if you can't find one...600kats still go plenty fast. Top out around ~130, and hit 60 mph about as fast as a stock base 'Vet from the same year. Whatever you end up getting, have fun and stay safe!

Why people say not to start on a 600 is mainly due to the super sport bikes like the GSXR you hear us say that they handle better but you need to think of the other part of the equation and that would be IN EXPERIENCED HANDS. A supersport will spit you off before you even know what happened. The Kat does not have that kind of power but it is still enough to get you in trouble. The Kat is a heavy bike and at slow speeds is more difficult for a new rider to steer compared to a standard riding position bike. That is why we recommend learning on the smaller bikes. For the price I would recommend a ninja 250 or 500 which are both fun bikes.

[PerfectCreature]

Is the difficulty steering due to a lack of strength or skill?
I found a 600kat but the guy wants about 3600 for it and its a 2006 with 13k miles.
I was all set to get a Ninja 300, but the guy backed out last minute so that was a bummer.
I went to the bank and these bikes don't seem to be worth much considering what they offered to loan me. The best she said she could loan on the 06 kat600 was$2400 and $1900 for the 05 kat750. I wonder where the bank gets its prices. They must work off trade in values?

[rschlegel]

The steering feels a little heavy because the way you are leaning over the bars and by how narrow the bars are. You do not have the leverage of wide bars that are out in front of you. I just installed standard bars on mine because of bad wrists and I was amazed how tight I can turn and how easy it is compared to stock bars.
Kats are old school and were not very popular. People kind of expected it to be a sport bike. The Kat was originally closer to being a sport bike but became an entry level sport touring bike as it stayed heavy and horse power stayed below 80hp on the 600 and not a lot more for the 750. I paid $1700 for my '98 with 11,400 miles on it in August 2013. I thought I got a good deal but after being on this site I think it was just an ok price.
I liked he Kat right away but still was checking out craigslist looking for a newer fuel injected bike. I have now done some work on the bike and just completed a valve adjustment. As I spend more time riding and actually enjoying learning how to work on it I find that I am no longer interested in a newer bike that I would not be able to work on. I still check out craigslist but just to keep my eye open for Kawasaki KLR 650's. I live in Colorado and want one to go next to my Kat for dirt roads.
3k is a bit high in my opinion. I would think 2400 - 2500 is more like it.

[PerfectCreature]

Well, the guy probably isn't budging. I will have to move on. There is a dealer who has a Kat600 that is a 2006. I offered $2300, we will see what the dealer says.
I still have plenty of time to pick one up, so I will just have to bide my time.
There is still tons of snow in my area, so I can't ride right away anyway.

[rschlegel]

As soon as you feel or show that you have to have one the seller is in more command so it is great that you are patient. I am in my late 40's and still working on that one. I think through purchases well before anyone knows and then I find something I want and get too excited.

[professorman]

I still have plenty of time to pick one up, so I will just have to bide my time.
There is still tons of snow in my area, so I can't ride right away anyway.

If there is still a lot of snow, then that means its a great time to buy. Dont wait until its gone, because you will be paying a pretty penny then. I just sold my 01 GSXR 750 for $2700, and it went like hotcake. I had about 50 people contact me within 2 days.

[PerfectCreature]

Well, the dealer insisted that he could get top dollar, so I think I will pass. He dropped down to 2500+ tax, fees and all that and said he had to take out the brand new battery at that low of a price. So I will be moving on.
I will keep my eyes open. While I would like one within the next few weeks, I will not rush and pay more then I want/have too.

[JIB]

Ask if you can get $2500 out the door.

[PerfectCreature]

Ask if you can get $2500 out the door.

I did, his response was that he has $2500 into the bike already and that he cannot do $2500 out the door. He did so generously offer that he could do $2500 plus taxes fees and all that but it would NOT have a battery, since the on in the bike is dead. I dried to get him to include the battery in that price, but he declined. He then proceeded to try to pull one over my eyes and say he could do $3000 out the door with no battery, which makes no sense because the original offer would have been about $2840 out the door.
Its a 2006 Kat 600 with 13k miles. I don't know how he expects to get 3k plus taxes and fees when you can get newer, more desirable brands/models for less and or the same price.
His loss.


Anyway, I will keep searching, I got my gloves in today, a little bit of a tight fit but I am hoping they stretch a little. My helmet comes tomorrow.
All that is left is a jacket and a bike and for the snow to melt and I can go out riding. Mostly practicing in the parking lots for a while, but I will get there. I get my permit in about 2 weeks.