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A few words about charging

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  • A few words about charging

    Hi everybody! I searched for a topic like this but I can't find anything, and so I must tell you some things, see if you agree with me or not.

    I bought my GSXF (or Katana, as you call it) about 2 and half years ago. I had to do some adjustments since it was more than 2 years since its last run. I ended up bring it on the road, and it runs very well now.

    2 years ago I went on a tour, or at list I planned it. So, 5 days, about 200 mi a day. Before going to this trip a strange thing happened: I was in a gas station, fueled up and the bike went dead. Simply dead. Well, it must be a fuse. It wasn't but after a quick look under the seat, the bike light up, but when I hit the start button it went dead again. I played with the starter solenoid and the bike started. This was a 5 minute max problem, which I thought it had to be a temporary thing. No alarms. This was 2 months before the long trip.
    Now lets' get back to the trip ...
    The first 2 days were OK, the bike had a great fuel consumption: 46.2 mpg best and never went below 37 mpg.
    On the third day the strange thing happened 2 months ago reappeared. Although this time, the bike did not died, just did not start. It made funny noise (the starter solenoid) and it started harder and harder until it stopped. At first, playing with the solenoid resolved the problem, but in the end I had to push the bike to start. It took my wife and I about 2 hours to start it, we head it right back home, never stopped the engine, not even for fueling. I even try to start it up with a charging station, or whatever you call it, nothing happened. Got back safe and went on digging up the fault. It took me about 2 months, twice getting the whole electrical wires back in the house for measurements and stuff, I had help from professionals, dismantle the starter motor, and a lot of ugly words to finally solve it: ground wire. I had taken it out, clean everything there, but it all came out when I used my cars battery to start (and it didn't start normally, by the way) using the standard procedure which says: lead wire to battery, ground wire to chassis (and not battery negative). When I dissected the wire it was al rusty and broke up in pieces .. unbelievable. Since then, I replaced the alternator and now things are "fine" or so I THINK.
    As I dug for solutions I talked to a lot of guys who had Katanas and they all said this: Katanas electrical system is faulty! Factory faulty. Because instead of reading the battery positive directly, the alternator get its positive current from the system. As strangely it may seem, I had some measurements: 12.8 directly from the battery, 11.8 from the electrical system. Why? As I took out all bulbs and consumers, the reading got back OK, above 12.5 V. Well, if it reads low voltage, the alternator is charging high, which is correct. Don't as me why it reads like this ...
    Now, a few questions...
    Do you also have differences measured between battery positive current and the alternator positive current?
    What is your consumption, or how many AMPS does your bike take? My bike seems to be like a US/Canada bike, headlight can not be turned off. Still, I have no fan. It take 8.5 amps, which I must say its a lot!
    What are your charging readings on idle and on running bike? Mine is 14.6-14.9 on idle, about 14.2 on running (4-5000 RPM).
    Does your battery heats up? As we all know, heat is not good when charging.
    How many wires your alternator have? A code is welcome ..
    Any other ideeas you have are also welcome.
    Thanks
    1988 Suzuki GSX1100F Katana

  • #2
    Originally posted by Macke View Post
    Hi everybody! I searched for a topic like this but I can't find anything, and so I must tell you some things, see if you agree with me or not.

    I bought my GSXF (or Katana, as you call it) about 2 and half years ago. I had to do some adjustments since it was more than 2 years since its last run. I ended up bring it on the road, and it runs very well now.

    2 years ago I went on a tour, or at list I planned it. So, 5 days, about 200 mi a day. Before going to this trip a strange thing happened: I was in a gas station, fueled up and the bike went dead. Simply dead. Well, it must be a fuse. It wasn't but after a quick look under the seat, the bike light up, but when I hit the start button it went dead again. I played with the starter solenoid and the bike started. This was a 5 minute max problem, which I thought it had to be a temporary thing. No alarms. This was 2 months before the long trip.
    Now lets' get back to the trip ...
    The first 2 days were OK, the bike had a great fuel consumption: 46.2 mpg best and never went below 37 mpg.
    On the third day the strange thing happened 2 months ago reappeared. Although this time, the bike did not died, just did not start. It made funny noise (the starter solenoid) and it started harder and harder until it stopped. At first, playing with the solenoid resolved the problem, but in the end I had to push the bike to start. It took my wife and I about 2 hours to start it, we head it right back home, never stopped the engine, not even for fueling. I even try to start it up with a charging station, or whatever you call it, nothing happened. Got back safe and went on digging up the fault. It took me about 2 months, twice getting the whole electrical wires back in the house for measurements and stuff, I had help from professionals, dismantle the starter motor, and a lot of ugly words to finally solve it: ground wire. I had taken it out, clean everything there, but it all came out when I used my cars battery to start (and it didn't start normally, by the way) using the standard procedure which says: lead wire to battery, ground wire to chassis (and not battery negative). When I dissected the wire it was al rusty and broke up in pieces .. unbelievable. Since then, I replaced the alternator and now things are "fine" or so I THINK.
    As I dug for solutions I talked to a lot of guys who had Katanas and they all said this: Katanas electrical system is faulty! Factory faulty. Because instead of reading the battery positive directly, the alternator get its positive current from the system. As strangely it may seem, I had some measurements: 12.8 directly from the battery, 11.8 from the electrical system. Why? As I took out all bulbs and consumers, the reading got back OK, above 12.5 V. Well, if it reads low voltage, the alternator is charging high, which is correct. Don't as me why it reads like this ...
    Now, a few questions...
    Do you also have differences measured between battery positive current and the alternator positive current?
    What is your consumption, or how many AMPS does your bike take? My bike seems to be like a US/Canada bike, headlight can not be turned off. Still, I have no fan. It take 8.5 amps, which I must say its a lot!
    What are your charging readings on idle and on running bike? Mine is 14.6-14.9 on idle, about 14.2 on running (4-5000 RPM).
    Does your battery heats up? As we all know, heat is not good when charging.
    How many wires your alternator have? A code is welcome ..
    Any other ideeas you have are also welcome.
    Thanks



    I'm going to give a simple answers for all that.




    Yes, the charging system works just like you described.


    Yes, this results commonly in a fault that causes the system to over charge.


    There is a simple fix to improve this by adding a 12v Auto relay. When triggered by key on, it triggers a wire spliced into the regulator input directly from the battery positive. This way the system will never over charge and fry things.


    Krey
    93 750 Kat



    Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

    "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

    Comment


    • #3
      Tried that and failed. Probably, or certainly I did a mistake. But I never gave up and it's on my to do list.
      Thanks.
      1988 Suzuki GSX1100F Katana

      Comment


      • #4
        The crusty wire you refer to, is this the cable from the battery positive to the circuit breaker, mine were the same, the option is there to bypass the circuit breaker and just join to the fuse box supply
        If it aint broke polish it

        1979 GS7/11 - 1990 GSX1100F

        My Rebuild
        http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=133928

        Comment


        • #5
          Could you explain more? This circuit braker is a 30A fuse, or at least this is what I understood when I read the electric scheme.
          If anyone has a drawing or something easier to read, it would be great.
          I tried what Kreylyn said, with a relay, but somehow I managed to put the bike permanently on power, I mean I cound not turn off power, not by switch, not by contact.
          I know I made a mistake, at that time I had no time to break up the bike as I don't have a garage. Now I do.
          1988 Suzuki GSX1100F Katana

          Comment


          • #6
            If you are taking the relay route you will need to make the trigger wire plus 12v from the key on only otherwise you will have 12v power on all the time. Basic 4 pole relay have pos12v, earth, 12v trigger from key on and 12v out once relay is powered up, do a quick google search on correct wiring and it will soon become clear.
            If it aint broke polish it

            1979 GS7/11 - 1990 GSX1100F

            My Rebuild
            http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=133928

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Kreylyn View Post
              I'm going to give a simple answers for all that.





              There is a simple fix to improve this by adding a 12v Auto relay. When triggered by key on, it triggers a wire spliced into the regulator input directly from the battery positive. This way the system will never over charge and fry things.


              Krey
              Will this work, even if the regulator is toast? Am I correct in understanding that it will bypass the regulator?

              Comment


              • #8
                No, it bypasses the bad wiring to the regulator, giving it the correct voltage reading.
                "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset you when I called you stupid. I thought you already knew..."
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                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by 92xjunker View Post
                  No, it bypasses the bad wiring to the regulator, giving it the correct voltage reading.
                  Okay, so if my regulator is bad then it will be a futile mod then?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If it's bad, yes. But pulling at least a direct wire to the regulator will prove that.
                    "I'm sorry, I didn't mean to upset you when I called you stupid. I thought you already knew..."
                    spammer police
                    USAF veteran
                    If your a veteran, join the KR veterans group

                    Comment

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