[Kreylyn]

Krey,

You should post some pictures. I'm wondering how you know when the process is done?
I have about 20 hours of electroloysis time into this now and have changed the anode twice (using hangers).

I still keep getting what looks like rust and green gunk on the anode. Is it possible some type of coating is coming off as well?

Will I know the process is complete when the anode comes out clean
Or do I look for something else to know the proces is done?

I just can't believe there is that much rust in the tank. From what I could see there was just a little surface rust directly inside the filler hole. Could have been a lot more rust in places I could not see???

I did about 4 days I guess so far. 1 day with a coat hanger, it didn't last long so I switched to a steel dow rod I had laying around, and it works much better. More going on in the tank, more stuff coming out in shorter time line. I think the more/larger anodes used the better it works.

I posted all the pics I have so far up on my website, in the slideshow secition. http://thebruise.knittwist.com/blogcfc5/client/ I don't update it nearly enough, but the pics are there.

But.. here are a few pics as a comparison of how it's working for me.

Before starting. In the center of this is a raised section, and if you look on either side there almost looks like a weld going down it... nope, that's crude... just shows how thick it was.




Here is anode in process. I pulled and cleaned it probably 10 or more times.




And here is 4 days later aproximately after flushing it out and drying the tank to see what I had.




I spend about 4 days total, flushed and refilled twice. Each time I flushed and refilled, it seemed to work a bit better. Looks like the solution becomes too polluted after a while, or the reaction changes it after time.

One thing to be aware of... using this method inside the tank only, hydrogen gas will collect inside any high spots, and those spots won't be int he solution to remove rust anymore. After all that I finally looked in from the bottom side after cleaning it, and saw this around the inside of the fill hole (top)...




Notice the bottome lip is cleaned because it stayed in the solution, but gas collected around the top and kept that dry. So, do over, this time doing the whole tank agian because I wanna see how well this will strip the paint anyways.




Anyways, I literarlly just started this last run, but have a few pictures of what happened right after this last pic was taken when I turned on the power.

Over all 70+ pics on just this topic on my website if you want/need more.

Krey

[steves]

Krey...

I checked out your website... but the tiny resolution of my netbook made the pictures kind of hard to view with the blogging software.

How did the "whole tank dip" end up?

If it is indeed releasing Hydrogen gas, then anyone who does this at home should be careful to do it in a well ventilated area!

[Kreylyn]

The whole tank dip is actually in process. I just started it last night when I made this last post. Those pics were hot out of the camera so to speak. I'll be updating with more on that. As of right now, we are about 14 hours in. I'll post a full write up here when I complete this process, and post pics with it.

Yes, this process releases alot of hydrogen gas. Hydrogen will rise to the top and collect if not ventilated. This is a concern and should be only done where the area is well ventilated. I have a "clean room" where a portion of my basement is completely closed/semi sealed off with 6 mil poly sheeting on all 4 walls and the ceiling, and a window to the outside at the top of one of the walls. I'll see about getting a pic.

Please note, even if your just doing the inside of the tank like posted prior, gas is still being released in large quantities. No smoking!

Krey

[Kreylyn]

What I have learned, and an update on the new full tank process (my 3rd run on this).

First, I had things going right the first run (55 gallon barrel) but 2 issues I did not take into consideration.

1. To fit the tank into that barrel, it was in a way that would not allow gas to vent fully. Not good for the process, so had to change this.

2. It takes longer than a couple of hours (I was at a friends shop .. )

So, we moved on to useing the tank as the container, and just doing the inside.

1. Coat hangers don't last long for this process.

2. Larger/more anodes makes things go quicker.

3. It's really easy to upkeep and clean up.... just dump out the tank and rinse.

4. Change the posisiton of the tank so the same spot does not collect gas and prevent that spot from being cleaned.

So, moving on the another try at the full tank submersion and process.

First, lets look at the overall at different time lapses...

Before turning the power on the first time.



And here is right after turning on the power, about 3 minutes in. Notice the water has become really difficult to see through because of the amount of fine bubbles of hydrogen gas being released. Please take care, it can turn small flames into very very large ones.




Here it is 2 hours in....




Next moring, about 8-9 hours later...




And now about 17 hours later....



Time to clean the anodes... almost no activity at all, or ... very few bubbles. A few pics of what they look like in, and out of the water.










Nasty stuff. So, I picked up a screwdriver to scrape em off with, and this dropped off the end of one of the rods.







All that off the tank, and it's got a ways to go still I think.

I'll finish up with a few pics of the "clean room" I made I'm going this in. It's not real clean, but it keeps the rest of the basement/house free of dust when I'm doing something dirty.

This shows my "vent"... opens to the outside.



Another angle, you can see the slitted section where you walk in.



And a pic from outside that section, so you see the entrance a little better.




2 packages of 6 mil poly from walmart, 1 roll of duct tape, stapler, and some cardbord squares... or about $15 and 2 hours of relaxed time means, wife no longer yells when I'm painting, sanding, drilling, or otherwise making a mess.

Then... she moved in with woodworking..

Krey

[steves]

This is a fantastic approach... especially for old bikes.

Then you can POR15 the inside... and I'm sure it'll be good for a LONG time.

[Kreylyn]

Yep, that is the plan for this tank. Already have the Por-15 ready to go when it's done.

Krey

[Londob5]

Using 3.0 amperes of current in electrolysis over a period of 17 hours, how many moles of Fe2+ will collect around the anode?

Wow, it just goes to show that you can actually use all of that Chem 102 information to good use....and I really hated the electrochem portion of that class.

[md86]

So what's the answer , brainiac ?

[Londob5]

So what's the answer , brainiac ?

Using the equation 2 FeO(OH)=Fe2O3 + H20 (all numbers after = are subscripts and the = represents the double arrow equilibrium).

3amps = 3 coulombs/sec

3coul/sec * 17hrs * 60min/1hr * 60sec/1min = 183600 coulombs

183600 coul * 1EQ/96,485 coul = 1.903 EQ Fe

1.903 EQ of Fe * 1 mole Fe/2 EQ Fe = .9505 moles Fe

.9505 moles of Fe 55.85g Fe/1 mole Fe = 53.14g Fe

The above answer is based on the reversible redox reaction of rust forming and differs slightly from the reaction in an aqueous solution using bicarbonate as an ionic conductor. My brain hurts too much to figure that one out...studying for an org.chem 2 test at the moment. The answer above should be close enough for government work, though.

Kinda reinforces Krey's need to keep doing the electrolysis...I doubt he's using 3 amps and a little iron has a pretty big mass.

[Kreylyn]

I was using 40 amps, dropped it down to 10 amps to see if there is any difference. That is output, not nessasarily flow through the solution. I've not been measuring that (though I probably should on the next time).

No pics this time, but an update for you. There are spots where the red paint (original factory) is starting to bubble up and peel away in about the size of quarters.

Krey

[Londob5]

As long as you had a high ion concentration, the 40 amps should have been 4x more successful. Although I can't stand the theoretical chemistry, I love to see it applied in real situations like this one.

40 amps should have given about 700 grams of Fe, assuming that there was enough ion concentration....but that is way more rust than a rusty tank can produce...my guess is that your bicarb ions were low, so you mostly produced H2 gas.
Any chemists can correct my math or theory, if I'm wrong...like I said, the theory is not my stong suit.

[md86]

Ok , so then , using my 2amp charger , how much am I gonna get out of MINE ? In oz's this time .

























Ah screw it , I'll just get me some Por15 one day .

[Kreylyn]

Ok , so then , using my 2amp charger , how much am I gonna get out of MINE ? In oz's this time .

Ah screw it , I'll just get me some Por15 one day .

That was what I did for my wifes bike. I was never able to fully clear all the kreame coat out, so I held off on the por-15 though. Then we discovered her overflow tube has rusted out inside the tank as well... so we ended up getting a different one, and it was clean inside. Plans been to replace hers anyways, so I saved the por15 for me when I get this tank done....

Krey

[Londob5]

Ok , so then , using my 2amp charger , how much am I gonna get out of MINE ? In oz's this time .

Ah screw it , I'll just get me some Por15 one day .

Ounces??
Sorry, I don't convert from metric

[uniquelyme]

Extremely interesting read, thanks for sharing! Please keep up with the pics and updates. With all the vintage we have around here this may be helpful in the future to know & try. So do I take it you do not recommend nor use Kream Coat? Being of old school myself, this was the only way I knew of, just wondering what your thoughts were.