[Wild-Bill]

Non-ethanol won't keep the carbs from getting gummed up if you let the bike sit too long, it just burns better and doesn't form beads of ethanol. Nothing to do with the octane.

Octane is a measure of how much energy is required to start the fuel burning. It's also an indication of how much energy will be released from burning the fuel. Higher octane fuel won't pre-detonate as easily from compression (which adds energy to the fuel) but when it does light off it releases more energy. In a Kat engine there isn't enough compression to start 87 octane burning; you still need a spark. Higher octane isn't going to pre-detonate either. The burn won't start until the spark plug fires. Then, even though it's producing more total energy from the complete burn, it burns slower so it'll still be burning when the exhaust valves open, stopping the engine from benefiting from any further burning of the fuel. In total, you get about the same amount of energy transferred to the crankshaft and the rest of the energy release goes to heating up the exhaust.

[zsrbpk]

Thanks Bill you know your stuff. I am definitely going to stay away from the ethanol as mush as possible! and if need be get the 93 oct.

[oldmako]

I don't yet own a bike so take the following for what it's worth..

I spend a lot of time boating. Ethanol has been horrible for boaters and great for marine mechanics. I have fought the ethanol scourge a few times in the last few years and have learned the following which may be of use.

Ethanol starts to turn to crap the day it's made, so always try to buy fuel from high volume gas stations that get frequent shipments. I have read that it can turn to crap in as little as 30 days.

My buddy has a boat powered with twin GM 350s. He never runs it and oddly enough he never has fuel problems. When queried he told me that he ALWAYS uses Strartron Enzyme fuel treatment. As a result, I now include startron in my boats fuel and will do the same when I get a bike.

Boaters used to fill up for the winter layup to minimize condensation. There are mountains of bandwidth devoted to the "to fill or not to fill" argument and I won't go there. But, on small engines that I own, and the Katana that I hope to buy, I will leave my tanks empty when the machine will be put up for the season. I will allow the engine to starve for fuel and then drain the tank. I assume that the petcock will allow this. If not, I'll simply siphon as much as I can out of the tank and then let it idle till it quits.

The alcohol is hell on various rubber parts and physically separates at some point. I've had to have my boat carb rebuilt twice in the last 6 years. I'd rather just not have to fight that battle.

[rockin6d]

10 quick points:::

1> ethanol absorbs water
2> ethanol is corrosive
3> ethanol doesn't provide the same energy output as petroleum (less miles pr gallon)
4> ethanol gels under low pressure or low temperature situations
5> ethanol makes good money for politicians and mechanics
6> ethanol will void manufactures warranties
7> ethanol provides a market for surplus corn (instead of feeding the hungry)
8> ethanol is a renewable resource
9> ethanol will work for fuel IF the engine is built to run it
10> ethanol can provide a job source for illegal migrant farmers (picking corn)

[jeffer949]

I work at a dealership and we have had problems on units that where serviced out with ethanol. Every bike we get now gets Startron enzyme fuel treatment in them. We dont have problems any more. Its great stuff and honestly should take care of clogged pilots just buy running it through your system. Normally it cleans its self out.

[loudnlow7484]

10 quick points:::

1> ethanol absorbs water
2> ethanol is corrosive
3> ethanol doesn't provide the same energy output as petroleum (less miles pr gallon)
4> ethanol gels under low pressure or low temperature situations
5> ethanol makes good money for politicians and mechanics
6> ethanol will void manufactures warranties
7> ethanol provides a market for surplus corn (instead of feeding the hungry)
8> ethanol is a renewable resource
9> ethanol will work for fuel IF the engine is built to run it
10> ethanol can provide a job source for illegal migrant farmers (picking corn)

4> is absolutely wrong (vodka is ethanol, and I leave it in the freezer... no gel so far)...... what you SHOULD have said is that ethanol gets less volatile when it gets very cold, which is why ethanol in gas is reduced in the winter, to avoid cold starting problems.

3> is misleading (lower specific energy by volume, but run at higher levels because of the difference in stoich ratio means the difference is negligible.... and ultimate potential power is higher with ethanol than pump gas in any given circumstance)

6> is only true in amounts higher than what is in our pump gas.

Way to add a little more to the BS snowball. I wish everybody would get their facts straight before contributing to this nonsense. Legitimate studies have been done on this stuff, why not read a little bit before crying out about how the sky is falling?

[earl12758]

hey guys i was wondering i have had to get my carbs cleaned last march and now my bike isn't running and took it to the shop and was told it needs some part for the carbs not sure if they said it was inlet needles i think but was also told that the ethonal in the gas is killing my bike and should run stabil oil in it the one for ethonal is there anything i can do to help the bike run all year with out having the carbs done 2 or 3 times a year

[05RedKat600]

hey guys i was wondering i have had to get my carbs cleaned last march and now my bike isn't running and took it to the shop and was told it needs some part for the carbs not sure if they said it was inlet needles i think but was also told that the ethonal in the gas is killing my bike and should run stabil oil in it the one for ethonal is there anything i can do to help the bike run all year with out having the carbs done 2 or 3 times a year

Ride it.

Sta-Bil works.

So does starting your bike up and running it for a bit every week.

[KatMatt]

I've read this entire post. I would just like one simple answer. Im getting a 98/99 Kat 750. Is it worth paying for the Non ethanol 90oct gas? It is going to be my daily driver. Only mods that are going to be done to it is higher tooth count in front sprocket and lower tooth count on rear. I like long distance travelling every now and then.

[rockin6d]

4> is absolutely wrong (vodka is ethanol, and I leave it in the freezer... no gel so far)...... what you SHOULD have said is that ethanol gets less volatile when it gets very cold, which is why ethanol in gas is reduced in the winter, to avoid cold starting problems.

3> is misleading (lower specific energy by volume, but run at higher levels because of the difference in stoich ratio means the difference is negligible.... and ultimate potential power is higher with ethanol than pump gas in any given circumstance)

6> is only true in amounts higher than what is in our pump gas.

Way to add a little more to the BS snowball. I wish everybody would get their facts straight before contributing to this nonsense. Legitimate studies have been done on this stuff, why not read a little bit before crying out about how the sky is falling?

4 is covered on this web site in another thread. And vodka is not ethanol, Please dont drink the ethanol!!!
3 is just chemistry. and if you'll check mileage with both you'll find you get better mpg with pure fuel
6 read your kats owner manual they only allow 5%

Ride it.

Sta-Bil works.

So does starting your bike up and running it for a bit every week.

make sure it's the marine grade the red kind wont help

[scottynoface]

6 read your kats owner manual they only allow 5%

The Katana engine was designed in the 80s...did they even know what ethanol was back then?

[mcssls]

The Katana engine was designed in the 80s...did they even know what ethanol was back then?

sure they did, for drinking.

[astevens54]

4 is covered on this web site in another thread. And vodka is not ethanol, Please dont drink the ethanol!!!
3 is just chemistry. and if you'll check mileage with both you'll find you get better mpg with pure fuel
6 read your kats owner manual they only allow 5%




make sure it's the marine grade the red kind wont help

The manual says 10% for ethanol (grain alcohol)(at least mine does) and 5% for methanol (wood alcohol).

[KAT TOY]

I've read this entire post. I would just like one simple answer. Im getting a 98/99 Kat 750. Is it worth paying for the Non ethanol 90oct gas? It is going to be my daily driver. Only mods that are going to be done to it is higher tooth count in front sprocket and lower tooth count on rear. I like long distance travelling every now and then.

when going to a 16T front sprocket the cover will have to be modified for it to fit. it will fit eventually. ck out this site for ethanol free gas locations.http://pure-gas.org/

[loudnlow7484]

4 is covered on this web site in another thread. And vodka is not ethanol, Please dont drink the ethanol!!!
3 is just chemistry. and if you'll check mileage with both you'll find you get better mpg with pure fuel
6 read your kats owner manual they only allow 5%




make sure it's the marine grade the red kind wont help

4- is covered with a bunch of half-truths and backyard mechanic theories in another thread. Hardly something to stand on. And ALL alcohol that you drink is ethanol, genius! It certainly isn't isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol) or methanol (very toxic). Just another beautiful example of a lot of talk with no facts.

3- I have to assume that this went over your head. It's not a really difficult concept. Alcohol is run around 9:1 afr, and gas is run around 14:1. In any given space, that's more fuel you are using with alcohol...... BUT, in almost any situation, alcohol makes more power than pump gas.

6- I don't need to read the manual for gas any more than I need to read the manual to figure out how to change gears. My fuel system is sparkly clean, and I have no problems with any pump gas.