[DClark]

I have seen a "new" product called Stabil ethanol (I think it said 'e10', don't remember) that appears to be Stabil Marine in a different package, might be worth trying if it is cheaper than Stabil Marine.
I have been using Starton which is the same price as Stabil, but includes a neat little booklet explaining how it has enzymes in it that do miraculous things for your fuel and motor (sarcasim intended).
I will say that my bike has been running pretty darn good since I have started using these products (including a couple of ounces of Berryman's with each tank).It has warmed up to 36 degrees today, I'll take her out to do some errands.

[loudnlow7484]

The problems started Oct 29 '10 (I remember the date b/c I was en route to a halloween party), was coming to a stop and WHAM-WHAM-WHAM sounded like I had a fist-sized wooden block bouncing in the fairings between my knees.

And you're blaming your gas for this? That sounds a bit more serious than gummy carbs.

[Bart]

And you're blaming your gas for this? That sounds a bit more serious than gummy carbs.

Thx for noticing. I've posted this same situation here and on another forum, and seems everyone's stumped. Really thought I'd totalled the bike then, but had no choice but to continue riding. She made it to where I was going, then back, then... OK I'm an addict, the Kat's my drug of choice and I've just kept using.

I didn't know what to think. Since then every "problem" seemed to point to either a bad air filter, fuel filter or a carb problem. Heard about the ethanol issue on a site for Houston riders. Re-checked it here and it seems to fit to a T. Combine the hydroscopic (sp.?) qualities with our very high humidity and the roller-coaster temperatures we've been having and carb.'ed bikes are dropping out of commission left and right around here.

[kevin2502000]

Thx for noticing. I've posted this same situation here and on another forum, and seems everyone's stumped. Really thought I'd totalled the bike then, but had no choice but to continue riding. She made it to where I was going, then back, then... OK I'm an addict, the Kat's my drug of choice and I've just kept using.

I didn't know what to think. Since then every "problem" seemed to point to either a bad air filter, fuel filter or a carb problem. Heard about the ethanol issue on a site for Houston riders. Re-checked it here and it seems to fit to a T. Combine the hydroscopic (sp.?) qualities with our very high humidity and the roller-coaster temperatures we've been having and carb.'ed bikes are dropping out of commission left and right around here.

Could b missing back-firing, that can sound like bangs when it does fire.

[DClark]

Could b missing back-firing, that can sound like bangs when it does fire.

My bike would pop real loud when the pilots were e10 clogging. One more thing about ethanol:
We all know out bikes came from the factory set to run real lean, ethanol really pushes it. I live at 5,000 alt. I used to use jets a step leaner than what was recomended for bikes at sea level because hey, I live at high alt. Well, my bike now needs those sea level spec'd jets at my 5000' alt to run best. If e15 becomes the main fuel available here, I'll have to find some even bigger mains to run right. I still have yet to see something close to my best of 44mpg (I get 38-39mpg).

[JayBell]

my bike doesn't sit long enough to collect too much water from ethanol fuel.. and, i spike the gas with Isopropyl which gobbles the water up for burning.

Every other tank, 1oz 95% isopropyl rubbing alcohol, and no probs s far.

I also have my AF screws opened a bit.

[rob845]

Thx for noticing. I've posted this same situation here and on another forum, and seems everyone's stumped. Really thought I'd totalled the bike then, but had no choice but to continue riding. She made it to where I was going, then back, then... OK I'm an addict, the Kat's my drug of choice and I've just kept using.

I didn't know what to think. Since then every "problem" seemed to point to either a bad air filter, fuel filter or a carb problem. Heard about the ethanol issue on a site for Houston riders. Re-checked it here and it seems to fit to a T. Combine the hydroscopic (sp.?) qualities with our very high humidity and the roller-coaster temperatures we've been having and carb.'ed bikes are dropping out of commission left and right around here.

Remove, check and clean the carbs. I had a similar issue but mine was due to all the butterfly vales WAY out of sync. so far out actually that the idle screw was not even touching the #3 carb butterfly valve. This was causing my bike to feel like it was a diesel at idle.....and run like crap when moving.

[loudnlow7484]

Thx for noticing. I've posted this same situation here and on another forum, and seems everyone's stumped. Really thought I'd totalled the bike then, but had no choice but to continue riding. She made it to where I was going, then back, then... OK I'm an addict, the Kat's my drug of choice and I've just kept using.

I didn't know what to think. Since then every "problem" seemed to point to either a bad air filter, fuel filter or a carb problem. Heard about the ethanol issue on a site for Houston riders. Re-checked it here and it seems to fit to a T. Combine the hydroscopic (sp.?) qualities with our very high humidity and the roller-coaster temperatures we've been having and carb.'ed bikes are dropping out of commission left and right around here.

No offense to anybody here, but 90% of what you hear about ethanol in fuel is the product of ignorance. Ethanol doesn't turn into a gel (though you can buy alcohol in a gel.... hand sanitizer. If you figure out a way to make alcohol gel on its own, let Purell know, I'm sure they'd happily pay you for the information), but it definitely will turn old hard fuel deposits into a gel and clog s**t up if you let it. Its hygroscopic (not "hydroscopic", though that seems more correct) properties do not actually cause problems in open fuel systems, though it could in theory help prevent tank rust due to condensation as it will absorb and bond with the water. Bonding with water won't make it do anything funny, but it further reduces the specific energy content, so it will make it run leaner. It does, however, cause a drop in fuel mileage because ethanol doesn't contain the specific energy that gasoline does... it does not cause a loss of power, though. Ethanol also burns cooler than gasoline, and is more forgiving of bad a/f ratios. Ethanol eats fiberglass, though, so race tanks (and RV or boat tanks made of fiberglass) that aren't epoxy coated for alcohol shouldn't run it.

BTW- I am living in a VERY hot/humid place where ALL gas is 20-25% ethanol, powering everything from 1960's VW's to the latest modern sportbikes (including vehicles made before the switch to ethanol). Back in the states, my bike sat for months with E10 in the tank, and then was ridden ~5000 miles or so on E10 before I came back to Rio, and it never skipped a beat. Take it for what it's worth, but the ones that blame something for their problems are generally the ones that scream the loudest, while the ones that have no problems generally don't say anything at all.

[jbgarretson]

No offense to anybody here, but 90% of what you hear about ethanol in fuel is the product of ignorance. Ethanol doesn't turn into a gel (though you can buy alcohol in a gel.... hand sanitizer. If you figure out a way to make alcohol gel on its own, let Purell know, I'm sure they'd happily pay you for the information), but it definitely will turn old hard fuel deposits into a gel and clog s**t up if you let it. Its hygroscopic (not "hydroscopic", though that seems more correct) properties do not actually cause problems in open fuel systems, though it could in theory help prevent tank rust due to condensation as it will absorb and bond with the water. Bonding with water won't make it do anything funny, but it further reduces the specific energy content, so it will make it run leaner. It does, however, cause a drop in fuel mileage because ethanol doesn't contain the specific energy that gasoline does... it does not cause a loss of power, though. Ethanol also burns cooler than gasoline, and is more forgiving of bad a/f ratios. Ethanol eats fiberglass, though, so race tanks (and RV or boat tanks made of fiberglass) that aren't epoxy coated for alcohol shouldn't run it.

BTW- I am living in a VERY hot/humid place where ALL gas is 20-25% ethanol, powering everything from 1960's VW's to the latest modern sportbikes (including vehicles made before the switch to ethanol). Back in the states, my bike sat for months with E10 in the tank, and then was ridden ~5000 miles or so on E10 before I came back to Rio, and it never skipped a beat. Take it for what it's worth, but the ones that blame something for their problems are generally the ones that scream the loudest, while the ones that have no problems generally don't say anything at all.

Well put..!!!!!!

[katanarider]

I don't know if there is any truth to this but Florida residents maybe able to get Ethanol free gas at marinas. I've read that law suits have been won by boat owners with fiberglass gas tanks due to ethanol eating the epoxy lineing of the tanks. Therefore marinas now offer pure gas.

[Psycho1]

It does, however, cause a drop in fuel mileage because ethanol doesn't contain the specific energy that gasoline does... it does not cause a loss of power, though.

Seems you just did a good job of contradicting yourself. With Alcohol having less energy per volume than gasoline, yes it will cause a slight loss of power if used in the same A/F ratio as gasoline. The only way to compensate for that decrease in energy is to increase the volume of alcohol by rejetting for it (or by opening the fuel's pathway more by using more throttle) to get the same results, which is why you lose mileage when running E10 or E15 even when riding the same as you did with non-alcohol gas. Granted the loss of power with 10-15% alcohol may be small enough to not be very noticable most of the time (seat of the pants), but it's still a loss.

[DClark]

Seems you just did a good job of contradicting yourself. With Alcohol having less energy per volume than gasoline, yes it will cause a slight loss of power if used in the same A/F ratio as gasoline. The only way to compensate for that decrease in energy is to increase the volume of alcohol by rejetting for it (or by opening the fuel's pathway more by using more throttle) to get the same results, which is why you lose mileage when running E10 or E15 even when riding the same as you did with non-alcohol gas. Granted the loss of power with 10-15% alcohol may be small enough to not be very noticable most of the time (seat of the pants), but it's still a loss.

Not true. Alcohol is an "oxygenate", it has more more oxygen than gasoline.A bike running E10 will run leaner than if it were running on pure gas. Adjust the mixture all you want (fuel injected cars care better able to do this) but you will not get the power you had with pure gas.The only way you can would be if you raised the compression ratio of the motor or were to jack up the timing of the motor. Moving on to E85, and doing this these things, along with major changes in the fueling, will produce more power. I know of people who have done this with their cars, specifically, GTO's like mine with LS2 motors, they get larger injectors, remap their pcm's, some run blowers and all is done with e85 in mind.
Getting back to to e10, properly tuned, running it will give you about 3-5% less mpg. I don't know how much power you'd lose. When my bike was bone stock, it got around 42mpg. Now that it is jetted and piped, driven real gently, I can get 39mpg. And, you can't really blame the jetting as it is now pretty spot on and if I still had the stock jetting (which was super lean to begin with), the bike would be excessively lean, bordering on bad for the motor type of lean.

[Chris438]

I work at a marina in Ontario, Canada. We do not have Ethanol in our gas at our marina but many others do on the lake. I was also told that gas stations around town that sell high octane fuel (94) do not have ethanol in their high octane fuel.

The marina has had to empty more gas tanks in the last 5 years then they ever have before. Boats seem to be really picky when it comes to water in fuel. Also around Muskoka, a lot of boats seem to sit a little while before they are used. The ethanol does for some reason seem to create more problems with water in the fuel.

Ethanol makes the condensation/water in tanks mix with the gas because water bonds with it (does not mean the water disappears). Condensation use to just go to bottom of the tanks and over time would be enough for you the sending unit/pump to collect the water. I emptied at least 5 tanks this summer. I use to be able to re-use the fuel in my personal vehicles, but I will not anymore, because I can't just pour the fuel into buckets and let it settle for a few min and pour out most of the bucket into a gas can (leaving the water and a bit of gas in the bottom). Now the gas that we have problems with is an orange colour and the water does not settle to the bottom, it stays mixed with the fuel (for a few days anyway). I know cars seem to burn off water in fuel fine (as long as there is not to much) but I just dump the fuel into the garbage tank now. Not worth it anymore.

All I really know is boats do not like ethanol.

[Free Coffee]

Boats seem to be really picky when it comes to water in fuel.

Yup...we empty the onboard collectors probably three times more often than we ever had five or so years ago. 'Burn through inline filters way faster too. Whether it's ethanol or an aging fuel system I dunno (boat's an 04)- but I'm just gonna go ahead and blame ethanol [insert rant about hippies here].

[steves]

All I know, is that winter-blend ethanol gas makes my truck get crappy mileage