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Kat 1100 front fork valving

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  • #1

    Kat 1100 front fork valving

    I finally got the bolt out with the stripped head...I took it to my local shop...haha. i dont have the patience nor the skill for that.

    I took a friends bike out while I was waiting for it to be done ( I should know better than to ride a new bike, a kawi z750), and now I realize my front suspension needs some love. I already have progressive springs. i was looking at the fiche, is there anything I can adjust to firm up the suspension, I already plan on using 15W oil, up from the 10W last time. I know these arent damper rod forks, but they dont seem like cartridge forks either...I dont see anything I can adjust. Is there anything I can adjust (other than preload?)?

    Cheers
    Alan
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Emulators is what you want.

    Krey
    93 750 Kat



    Modified Swingarm, 5.5 GSXR Rear with 180/55 and 520 Chain, 750 to 600 Tail conversion, more to come. Long Term Project build thread http://katriders.com/vb/showthread.php?t=96736

    "I've done this a thousand times before. What could possibly go wron.... Ooops!"

    Comment

    • #3
      Originally posted by Vishnuisgod View Post
      I finally got the bolt out with the stripped head...I took it to my local shop...haha. i dont have the patience nor the skill for that.

      I took a friends bike out while I was waiting for it to be done ( I should know better than to ride a new bike, a kawi z750), and now I realize my front suspension needs some love. I already have progressive springs. i was looking at the fiche, is there anything I can adjust to firm up the suspension, I already plan on using 15W oil, up from the 10W last time. I know these arent damper rod forks, but they dont seem like cartridge forks either...I dont see anything I can adjust. Is there anything I can adjust (other than preload?)?

      Cheers
      Alan
      Why do you say they are not damper rod forks?

      Also the best first step you can do is junk the progressive springs, Progressive springs are soft on initial travel and then firm up towards the bottom of the travel. Get yourself a set of linear springs for your weight and start from there with a 15wt fluid that is rated in the mid 30's cSt @ 40 deg C. If money allows the emulators are a nice addition as it basically removes the limitations of a stock damper rod fork and gives you adjustability (Not externally though).

      Tmod

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by Tmod View Post
        Why do you say they are not damper rod forks?

        Also the best first step you can do is junk the progressive springs, Progressive springs are soft on initial travel and then firm up towards the bottom of the travel. Get yourself a set of linear springs for your weight and start from there with a 15wt fluid that is rated in the mid 30's cSt @ 40 deg C. If money allows the emulators are a nice addition as it basically removes the limitations of a stock damper rod fork and gives you adjustability (Not externally though).

        Tmod
        I am no expert, but since I started to do more reading these things have led me to think that they are not damper rod forks, rather cartridge forks.

        1. VX800 is a damper rod;
        404 - File or directory not found.
        http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/FRONT_DAMPER/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/32/Year/1991/ModelID/6479/Model/VX800/GroupID/270848/Group/FRONT_DAMPER


        2. Kat 1100 fork internals are different from the above fiche;
        404 - File or directory not found.
        http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/FRONT_DAMPER_1989-1993/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/32/Year/1991/ModelID/6166/Model/GSX1100F_KATANA/GroupID/249469/Group/FRONT_DAMPER_1989-1993


        3.these two sites show me something similar to what I pulled out, but I cant see how they are adjustable in any way (other than preload);
        http://www.fjmods.btinternet.co.uk/emulators.htm

        and
        Page not found – Race Tech
        http://racetech.com/html_files/DampingRodForks.HTML



        back to you...

        Comment

        • #5
          The name is "damper assembly" on the fiche.... so ... that's a pretty good indicator.
          -Steve


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          Comment

          • #6
            Originally posted by Vishnuisgod View Post
            I am no expert, but since I started to do more reading these things have led me to think that they are not damper rod forks, rather cartridge forks.

            1. VX800 is a damper rod;
            404 - File or directory not found.
            http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/FRONT_DAMPER/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/32/Year/1991/ModelID/6479/Model/VX800/GroupID/270848/Group/FRONT_DAMPER


            2. Kat 1100 fork internals are different from the above fiche;
            404 - File or directory not found.
            http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/FRONT_DAMPER_1989-1993/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/32/Year/1991/ModelID/6166/Model/GSX1100F_KATANA/GroupID/249469/Group/FRONT_DAMPER_1989-1993


            3.these two sites show me something similar to what I pulled out, but I cant see how they are adjustable in any way (other than preload);
            http://www.fjmods.btinternet.co.uk/emulators.htm

            and
            Page not found – Race Tech
            http://racetech.com/html_files/DampingRodForks.HTML



            back to you...
            Ahhh that is when what year it is in the title pays off as the 88 was a damper rod and 89 and newer are the cartridge style. The older forks like that I have had in the past have a bleed hole about center on the cartridge tube and they act like a damper rod fork system but have a cartridge (Marketing scheme I am sure). Some cartridge forks like the Triumph ST have the look of a conventional but cartridges inside and they are not externally adjustable for either rebound or compression as well.

            Take a look at the cartridge and see if there any holes about mid tube. Better yet take a pic and post it back.

            Tmod
            Last edited by Tmod; 05-03-2012, 01:58 PM.

            Comment

            • #7
              its taken me a day or two to get a pic, but this is the inside...

              ignore the tweaked fork, it was just rolling around from another project.

              The rod that sticks out the top (to the left) moves up and down with a piston inside the tube.
              Attached Files
              Last edited by Vishnuisgod; 05-10-2012, 09:03 PM.

              Comment

              • #8
                Yep Showa cartridge there, They are revalvable on both rebound and compression.

                Should be able to just push the base valve up into the cartridge and remove the clip and pull the base valve out. Take the nut off the damper rod and the rebound will come out of the bottom as well.

                Tmod

                Comment

                • #9
                  no clips anywhere, I was trying to twist the bottom plug out with my circlip pliers and broke a tip. Bullox!

                  Theres not a clip at the top either....

                  Notice in the first pic, there is a dimple. There is one opposite of it too. Might those be used to hold the plug inside, versus threading ?

                  The second pics shows diddly squat, but theres no upper clip....
                  Attached Files

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Well that sucks, Are those tubes you can experiment with or are those the ones from the bike?

                    Tmod

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                    • #11
                      ...from the bike.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Oh nevermind then.

                        Just run a thicker fluid if you want to stiffen it up a bit.

                        Tmod

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          I was affraid you were going to say that.

                          Now if I wanted to pull it out, could I drill out the dimples and use some set screws hold it in place? Would it all come out the bottom? I am very curious to see how it works at this point. I doesnt mean I will, I am just curious.
                          Last edited by Vishnuisgod; 05-11-2012, 10:40 AM.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Vishnuisgod View Post
                            I was affraid you were going to say that.

                            Now if I wanted to pull it out, could I drill out the dimples and use some set screws hold it in place? Would it all come out the bottom? I am very curious to see how it works at this point. I doesnt mean I will, I am just curious.
                            If it was me and I am not suggesting you do this I would drill the dimple out and then pull the base valve out of the bottom, It looks as though there is a snap ring retaining it as the base valve has the shelf at the bottom of it. Then I would clean the drilled hole up and deburr it so the rebound valve piston band will not get damaged when i pulled it out. If the base valve did indeed have a clip at this point I would just pop it all back together with some different valving. But as I said I am not even remotely suggesting you do that.

                            Tmod

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              Tmod,
                              thanks, I may try it. If i do, where do i get new or different valves shims or what ever they are? and how do I tell what they are currently?

                              I think Im going to start with a taller spacer and heavier oil is the jump from 10 to 15 weight too much? (could i just use some 10w40? haha)

                              Comment

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