mx4t!!!

Yeah , there was a big thing not too long ago about using deisel oil in bikes . For one it's cheaper , so that's cool . I tried it for a few months . Nothing exploded . I switched back to the Valvoline stuff with the bike on the bottle , though .

That PDF you posted up leaves me questioning it, because it states that it's API SL & SJ rated. If it is indeed SL & SJ rated, then it should contain friction modifiers that are not compatible with your wet-clutch application (and it does have a disclaimer about use as an SF/SG replacement only in recommended applications).

Also note that it says meets JASO-MA friction requirements, not the full suite of JASO-MA specs; instead it meets the full suite of JASO DH-1, which is not the same spec as JASO-MA (MA is appropriate to motorcycles, DH1 is appropriate to large diesel engines with dry-clutch applications). You can find more about JASO DH-1 specs here:
http://www.lubrizol.com/DieselTrends...quirements.asp

In general, the actual tech-spec numbers (HTHS values, sulfated ash content, etc) look very good -- better than most diesel oils and most car oils -- and I wouldn't slam the oil -- provided it does not contain any friction modifiers that would interfere with your clutch.

Cheers
=-= The CyberPoet

Very interesting but if the Duron price was even close to a good quality motorcycle oil, I would probably go with the motorcycle oil.
Mobil's MX4T is $13 Cdn a bottle...

If you're just winterizing, you should be able to find some cheap MC oils at around $3.50 - $4.00 CDN a liter if you shop diligently. Or pull your clutch pack out for the winter and use any oil on the planet -- just don't run it :P

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

Been using castrol 10w-40 for 12 years never had a problem.Change it twice a season or every 2500 or so. Motorcycle oil and all of this synthetic sh#t is relatively new,what did they use before it all?

haha
Yep, I went with cheap MC oil to be on the safe side. Next spring I will go with some good stuff because I want a quality oil in the air/cooled Kat. Good 'ole Canadian Tire here has $13 Mobil, $10 Amsoil and $10 PJ1 semi synth. I haven't checked other parts stores yet but I'd be willing to pay that much for some piece of mind. I'd just hope that I wouldn't get a leak with synth where my bike is a 97 and 29000kms(18000miles).

You can get the cheap Cdn tire bike oil for $1.99/L or maybe it's 2.99/L I don't remember lol.

My buddy is running the PJ stuff in his 86 Ninja and he really noticed a difference.

Talk about confusing. Is JASO-MA friction requirements more for the engine, or more about it's safe use in wet clutches? Or both? Is it even possible to meet JASO-MA friction requirements and be SL/SJ rated?

The specs seems to bear this out, but after being spooked off from using Mobil redcap from two different mechanic shops over the supposed friction modifiers, (which also has decent spec numbers) I just don't know what to believe anymore.

I suppose I can't go wrong with the MX4T, and hopefully I'm not coming accross as cheap, it's just that if I can get a nearly equal quality oil for nearly a quarter of the price, it's worth a look IMHO.


BTW, you folks rock! Great info!

JASO-MA friction requirements are only one part of a much larger set of standards that combined form the JASO-MA spec, so, yes, in theory, an oil could be both SJ/SL rated and JASO-MA Friction compliant (but I don't think an oil could be both API SJ/SL and fully JASO-MA -- by definition).

JASO (Japanese Manufacturer's Org) came up with JASO-MA specifically for the motorcycle market because their needs weren't being met by API-spec oils (and definitely weren't going to be met by proposed API specs that were set to roll through in the "then" future -- SJ/SL/SM). What we have is two totally separate directions of oil development:

The API, influenced by the US Gov't mandates, is creating oil specs designed to improve fuel consumption in newer automobile engines, which are specifically designed to run on lighter, thinner, slipperier oils, while reducing certain additives (esp. Zinc, but ZDDP in general) to improve lifespans on catalytic converters. If as a result, the US gets a 1.5% change in the fuel consumption across the passenger vehicle segment, that's a significant amount. Hence the introductions of SH (reduced ZDDP), SJ (further reduction in ZDDP, addition of friction modifiers), SL (more of the same), SM (yet more of the same). This is also why the API plackard now has a disclaimer "for automobile engines built after..." rather than the old phrasing of "for gasoline engines built after..."

The (full) JASO-MA spec is designed specifically for 4-stroke motorcycle engines. It addresses a ton of application-specific issues that affect motorcycle engines in specific, and takes into account such factors as wet clutch inclusion, high operating RPMs, high operating temps, the need for reduced ring blow-by (& accelerated ring-wear due to high RPM's), sulfated ash content (which can build-up like carbon, as well as help form sulfuric acid which eats MC tranny components due to their meteal content), very strict anti-foaming requirements, the fact that the tranny gearing is in the oil (gears meshing produce great shear forces on the oil chains), very strict boil-off/vaporization issues (API spec oils can boil off 50% of their volume in an service interval; JASO-MA spec oils can only lose something like 8%), etc.

There are cheap full JASO-MA spec oils out there. Any any oil that is full JASO-MA spec, is, by definition, also API SF/SG rated.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

Any of the cheap ones synthetic?

Seriously though, appreciate the help! I learned a lot!

Nige 8)

Yep the Motomaster stuff is what I put in for 2.99 a bottle. It's all I've ever used in other bikes when I was riding 10 years ago.
I was giving the PJ1 a good look the other day and I may end up trying it next spring.

Good info on the Duron and if it's only $3 a bottle that's better. Smart is not being cheap especially if it's good oil we can use in our bikes...

Oh, one other thing:
Out of all the oils I've looked at the specs/info for, the only oil that beats MX4T for vaporization temp is Mobil's VTwin (20w50) -- the mobil motorcycle oils handle heat significantly better than any other oil I've seen on the market (by a factor of 35 to 85 degrees [F] over most other JASO-MA oils, and by a factor of 100+ degrees over standard car oils).

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet