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View Full Version : 94 GSX600F woes..


kennedy3323
09-25-2008, 08:16 AM
I picked up the bike for $1200.00 bucks at the beginning of August with 12k miles on the odom. She ran decent but needed a valve adjustment. She does in fact have a very loud chatter coming from the top of the motor. Previous owner said that he never did adjust the valves. Tank has light rust towards the filler cap. No gear issues.

Since then I have attended and past the MSF course..woot! Changed the oil to Mobile MX4T, filter and Air Filter with a stock replacement.

On Tuesday I took the bike out for its first long ride. She didn't want to start and hold idle at all. Gave some choke and let her sit for 3-5 min. Removed choke and throttled it a bit and she held. A weak idle but held idle none the less. Went to work and when about to leave she was giving me the same issue with idle. So I left a little choke on and headed home. Parked her that night and started to troll these forums. Found out that riding with choke on was extremely bad due to gas leak down so she will sit until I figure out whats wrong with the idle.

Last night I ditched class to go home and work on the bike after work. Started her up with a little choke and sprayed starter fluid around the vac lines under the tank for a possible leak. Nothing happened.

I did notice that with 5 min of little choke and some throttling the first exhaust pipe was sizzling hot and the other three were hot but not as hot as the first. By first I mean the left most while sitting on the bike.

So I drained and pulled the tank off. Removed the Air Filter to check for any puddling in the air box. No fluids in the box at all but I did notice that the box itself was split down the middle. Right were the seems are at the top. I don't know if this is normal construction of the air box or if it has in fact split and is in need of repair.

I checked the petcock and noticed that my settings are different from what most list as the normal settings. My "Res" is at the 0300 position, "Prime" is at 0900 and my "On" is at the 1200. This kinda throws me for a loop. I have three lines coming from my Petcock to the carbs. I assume this is correct.

The previous owner stated that he had the carbs cleaned but they were never synced.

I did not get the chance to check the spark plugs last night. That will be first on my list for Friday night.

Any possible reason why she will not hold idle. I plan on replacing the rubber fuel lines this weekend. I checked Ronayers.com and they want $9 for the front line and $5 for the back. I may just use some fuel hose from AutoZone unless that is a bad idea. Don't see why it would be though.

Any possible help that will shed some light on this would be greatly appreciated. I am itching like hell cause I want to ride this puppy.

Thanks!

-James

madvillekat135
09-25-2008, 08:52 AM
ok, Petcock first. If looking at the dial, the lines on the left and right are fuel lines, the line in the back is a vacuum line that opens the petcock to allow fuel to flow, be sure to replace it with vacuum line and not fuel line.

Having the carbs synced will help a ton. Have that doen then see if the idle improves

kennedy3323
09-25-2008, 09:11 AM
Gotcha about the vac line at the back of the Petcock. This runs to the #4 carb, correct?

I also forgot to mention that I attempted to adjust the idle with the idle screw on the left of the bike under the tank. It does not seem to work like it should. I lost my turn count completely while trying to up idle. Is there a "stock" setting? For instance turn all the way in then back out so many turns?

madvillekat135
09-25-2008, 09:34 AM
correct, not sure about a stock setting for the carbs, prolly should ask Cyber Poet, he has ALL knowledge of kats

ctandc
09-25-2008, 10:27 AM
I She ran decent but needed a valve adjustment. She does in fact have a very loud chatter coming from the top of the motor. Previous owner said that he never did adjust the valves. Tank has light rust towards the filler cap. No gear issues.

Valve adjustment isn't too bad. Although I'm pretty sure the 94 600 engine is shims. Do a search for it and you'll find all the info you need about checking / adjusting valves.

Also...it got me at first too...the Kat is an air/oil cooled engine so they tend to be a good bit louder 'mechanically' than other engines. Just saying you might check the valves and realize they are fine.

Another cause of excessive 'chatter' would be the CCT Spring. Cheap and easy to replace.



Since then I have attended and past the MSF course..woot! Changed the oil to Mobile MX4T, filter and Air Filter with a stock replacement.

Sounds like a good start. Next on your list should be checking the condition of the brake fluid in the front and rear brake systems. If it's never been changed / flushed (likely) it'll look like mud. It should be CLEAR. A good flush / bleed isn't too bad on time or $$$.



On Tuesday I took the bike out for its first long ride. She didn't want to start and hold idle at all. Gave some choke and let her sit for 3-5 min. Removed choke and throttled it a bit and she held. A weak idle but held idle none the less. Went to work and when about to leave she was giving me the same issue with idle. So I left a little choke on and headed home. Parked her that night and started to troll these forums. Found out that riding with choke on was extremely bad due to gas leak down so she will sit until I figure out whats wrong with the idle.

I wouldn't worry too much. Sounds like you simply need to read CARBS 101 and get to work. Regardless of whether or not the previous owner "cleaned the carbs" sounds like clogged pilot jets. Easy enough to remedy, just take your time and do it right (read : ONCE).




I did notice that with 5 min of little choke and some throttling the first exhaust pipe was sizzling hot and the other three were hot but not as hot as the first. By first I mean the left most while sitting on the bike.

So I drained and pulled the tank off. Removed the Air Filter to check for any puddling in the air box. No fluids in the box at all but I did notice that the box itself was split down the middle. Right were the seems are at the top. I don't know if this is normal construction of the air box or if it has in fact split and is in need of repair.

If you actually mean that it's physically SPLIT then yes it needs repair / replaced. If you can't fix it PM me, I have a pre 98 600 box I'll sell you cheap.

I checked the petcock and noticed that my settings are different from what most list as the normal settings. My "Res" is at the 0300 position, "Prime" is at 0900 and my "On" is at the 1200. This kinda throws me for a loop. I have three lines coming from my Petcock to the carbs. I assume this is correct.

What are you going by? Is there stickers or markings on the fairings?

the petcock has three connections. Two are fuel and the smaller one is the vacuum connection to the #4 carb. That actually provides fuel. If your petcock is working correctly, you don't need to drain the tank. When in the ON position, with the fuel lines disconnected, bike off, gas should NOT flow out of the petcock. If it does look at a rebuild kit (not pricey, pretty easy to do, but parts can be hard to find lately...look around Ebay)

The previous owner stated that he had the carbs cleaned but they were never synced.

Like I already mentioned, don't assume anything. Even guys here who do their own stuff have had to clean the carbs several times to get 'em right. But once they are right, you're good to go. And it's likely to cost you nothing but time and some carb cleaner.


I did not get the chance to check the spark plugs last night. That will be first on my list for Friday night.

Having just gotten the bike, mine as well just replace 'em. The NGK's are recommended and you can score the pre 98 NGK's at NAPA or some other autoparts store cheap.

Any possible reason why she will not hold idle.

Clogged pilot jets....betcha...:-D




I plan on replacing the rubber fuel lines this weekend. I checked Ronayers.com and they want $9 for the front line and $5 for the back. I may just use some fuel hose from AutoZone unless that is a bad idea. Don't see why it would be though.


Trust someone who tried that route. Using auto fuel line, you'll find the right INNER DIAMETER but the OUTER diameter will be too big and the EFI hose is too stiff. Makes installing it a HUGE pain, and can cause fuel flow problems (downhill to carbs). Just go to the local Motorcycle Shop and Get some Motion Pro or other brand of motorcycle 1/4" fuel line. you can even order it online and it's not that pricey at all. And will make your life easier.



This would be my short list, but I'm pretty picky about my vehicles..

- Pull the plastics and tank
- At least check the valve clearances
- Make sure the valve cover gasket is in decent shape
- Replace the spark plugs
- Check the connection at the spark plug boots, if it's not in good shape, snip a bit off the wire (after pulling the boot off) and simply 'screw' the boot back onto the wire (once you look at it you'll see what I mean).
- Pull the carbs
- Read / print CARBS 101
- Clean the carbs
- Read CARBS 101 again
- Clean carbs again (just to save you the trouble of putting 'em back on then pulling 'em again LOL
- Check the flow on the petcock, make sure it's working correctly
- Adjust / lube throttle and choke cables
- Flush / bleed front and rear brake systems (use synthetic fluid it's worth the few bucks)
- Adjust / lube chain


Then go ride.........ALOT.

kennedy3323
09-25-2008, 10:56 AM
Valve adjustment isn't too bad. Although I'm pretty sure the 94 600 engine is shims. Do a search for it and you'll find all the info you need about checking / adjusting valves.

Also...it got me at first too...the Kat is an air/oil cooled engine so they tend to be a good bit louder 'mechanically' than other engines. Just saying you might check the valves and realize they are fine.

Another cause of excessive 'chatter' would be the CCT Spring. Cheap and easy to replace.
I don't know about the CCT Spring. I'll have to look into that.


Sounds like a good start. Next on your list should be checking the condition of the brake fluid in the front and rear brake systems. If it's never been changed / flushed (likely) it'll look like mud. It should be CLEAR. A good flush / bleed isn't too bad on time or $$$.


Agreed!!



I wouldn't worry too much. Sounds like you simply need to read CARBS 101 and get to work. Regardless of whether or not the previous owner "cleaned the carbs" sounds like clogged pilot jets. Easy enough to remedy, just take your time and do it right (read : ONCE).
I have read it three times, lol. I do believe that will be on task for this weekend.



If you actually mean that it's physically SPLIT then yes it needs repair / replaced. If you can't fix it PM me, I have a pre 98 600 box I'll sell you cheap.
I will inquire.



What are you going by? Is there stickers or markings on the fairings?

the petcock has three connections. Two are fuel and the smaller one is the vacuum connection to the #4 carb. That actually provides fuel. If your petcock is working correctly, you don't need to drain the tank. When in the ON position, with the fuel lines disconnected, bike off, gas should NOT flow out of the petcock. If it does look at a rebuild kit (not pricey, pretty easy to do, but parts can be hard to find lately...look around Ebay)

I have found a rebuild kit on ebay. There are no stickers on the fairings but there is a metal tab behind the knob that lists it's positions. Also it will not turn to the 0600 positon.



Like I already mentioned, don't assume anything. Even guys here who do their own stuff have had to clean the carbs several times to get 'em right. But once they are right, you're good to go. And it's likely to cost you nothing but time and some carb cleaner.
That seems to be the cycle.




Having just gotten the bike, mine as well just replace 'em. The NGK's are recommended and you can score the pre 98 NGK's at NAPA or some other autoparts store cheap.

I have new plugs that I picked up thanks to Cyber.



Clogged pilot jets....betcha...:-D
Will find out this weekend.....I hope!



Trust someone who tried that route. Using auto fuel line, you'll find the right INNER DIAMETER but the OUTER diameter will be too big and the EFI hose is too stiff. Makes installing it a HUGE pain, and can cause fuel flow problems (downhill to carbs). Just go to the local Motorcycle Shop and Get some Motion Pro or other brand of motorcycle 1/4" fuel line. you can even order it online and it's not that pricey at all. And will make your life easier.

Noted!


This would be my short list, but I'm pretty picky about my vehicles..

- Pull the plastics and tank
- At least check the valve clearances
- Make sure the valve cover gasket is in decent shape
- Replace the spark plugs
- Check the connection at the spark plug boots, if it's not in good shape, snip a bit off the wire (after pulling the boot off) and simply 'screw' the boot back onto the wire (once you look at it you'll see what I mean).
- Pull the carbs
- Read / print CARBS 101
- Clean the carbs
- Read CARBS 101 again
- Clean carbs again (just to save you the trouble of putting 'em back on then pulling 'em again LOL
- Check the flow on the petcock, make sure it's working correctly
- Adjust / lube throttle and choke cables
- Flush / bleed front and rear brake systems (use synthetic fluid it's worth the few bucks)
- Adjust / lube chain


Then go ride.........ALOT.

All plastics removed along with tank. Forgot to mention I picked up a Sprocket/Chain combo from pitposse. Already on the bike and lubed.

Thanks for the reply!

ctandc
09-25-2008, 12:06 PM
Also it will not turn to the 0600 positon.


Mine won't either

12 'o'clock position
3 'o' clock position
9 'o' clock position only

DumbLuck
09-25-2008, 12:20 PM
Mine won't either

12 'o'clock position
3 'o' clock position
9 'o' clock position only

pull the knob, rotate 180 degrees, put back on <g>. dont discount the possibilities of the petcock itself being re-assembled incorrectly.

kennedy3323
09-25-2008, 12:43 PM
pull the knob, rotate 180 degrees, put back on <g>. dont discount the possibilities of the petcock itself being re-assembled incorrectly.

I tried but there is only one way for the knob to attach to the shaft. So if it's the same as ctandc then the image that floats around this forum does not apply to Pre's?

Kfreak
09-25-2008, 05:17 PM
Idle issue was hit on the head. Clean the pilots. I went thru this. I ran a coarse garbage tie wire thru my pilots and it's been running ever since.

As for the petcock, yes, you can re-build incorrectly.

ctandc
09-25-2008, 08:47 PM
Maybe it's th 4 or 10 beers I've had since I got off work....but try this.

Unhook the fuel lines and vacuum line from your petcock with the petcock in the ON position (pointing straight up).

Does gas come out? (other than a few drops of what was already in there?) IF not......that part is right.

Now turn the petcock towards the rear of the bike (3 o clock).

Does gas comeout? If so.....that's right, that's PRIME.

No turn it BACK to 12 then over to 9.........no gas should come out.

you can't turn the petcock in a full circle......

Psycho1
09-25-2008, 09:00 PM
Maybe it's th 4 or 10 beers I've had since I got off work....but try this.

Unhook the fuel lines and vacuum line from your petcock with the petcock in the ON position (pointing straight up).

Does gas come out? (other than a few drops of what was already in there?) IF not......that part is right.

Now turn the petcock towards the rear of the bike (3 o clock).

Does gas comeout? If so.....that's right, that's PRIME.

No turn it BACK to 12 then over to 9.........no gas should come out.

you can't turn the petcock in a full circle......
His petcock knob is set 180 degrees off from normal. Same direction of rotation to get ot the settings though. Counter clockwise till it stops would be prime (9 o'clock with the dial off 180) straight up and down for run, clockwise fully for reserve. His just points backwards.

Newbie2it
09-25-2008, 11:42 PM
I wouldnt recommend running a wire threw the pilot since the opening regulates the amount of fuel. Wire will enlargen the hole. Generally I use nylon fishing line as it wont make the hole bigger on any bike I work on, including my own.

kennedy3323
09-26-2008, 08:42 AM
The Petcock functions properly. Prime is at 0900 and allows free flow of fuel. On and Reserve only function with vacuum.

I set up an axillary gas tank last night to check the fuel lines and try and run a bit of seafoam through the carbs. There is little to no vacuum from the main fuel line. I couldn't pick up any fuel through the main line and I did have the the vacuum line that runs from the back of the petcock to the #4 carb pluged. So I continued add a bit of seafoam through the prime line.

I pulled the plugs to take a look at their condition. This is what I found:

#1 Plug was a dark brown/red around the porciline and threads with a ever so slight bit of oil on the tip.

#2 Same as #1

#3 Plug was completely black around the porciline and threads

#4 Same as #3

With the soft brass material thats used on the carb parts I doubt I will use anything except a soft and old toothbrush, carb cleaner and air to clean the parts.

I will probably move on and remove the carbs tonight so I can visually inspect the main fuel line for possible blockage.

I appreciate all the feeback from those that left input.

-James

kennedy3323
09-27-2008, 08:40 PM
O.K.,

Carbs have been cleaned and I found a few clogged jets. One on carb two and four. All pilots were clean.

Now I just need to measure float. Anyone have any pointers? Also, should there be any fuel T that connects carb two to three?

Newbie2it
09-28-2008, 12:54 AM
O.K.,

Carbs have been cleaned and I found a few clogged jets. One on carb two and four. All pilots were clean.

Now I just need to measure float. Anyone have any pointers? Also, should there be any fuel T that connects carb two to three?


No regarding the "should there be any fuel T that connects carb two to three?"

As for measuring, myself, I just flip them over and use a digital caliper for the adjustments. Gets me right on since it shows Metric as well as American. Measure from the edge where the bowl makes contact to the carb body up to the top edge of the float assembly. Adjusting the height is just a matter of lightly bending the tank to achieve the right height.

DumbLuck
09-28-2008, 03:32 AM
The Petcock functions properly. Prime is at 0900 and allows free flow of fuel. On and Reserve only function with vacuum.

I set up an axillary gas tank last night to check the fuel lines and try and run a bit of seafoam through the carbs. There is little to no vacuum from the main fuel line. I couldn't pick up any fuel through the main line and I did have the the vacuum line that runs from the back of the petcock to the #4 carb pluged. So I continued add a bit of seafoam through the prime line.

there is no vacuum from the carbs to the petcock via the fuel lines. It is a gravity system. Vacuum to open the petcock while set to on or reserve is supplied by the third hose, from carb #4 to the back side (opposite of the knob) of the petcock. Prime opens the petcock allowing fuel to drain via gravity from the tank to the carbs. there is no "Prime line". the front petcock outlet feeds fuel to one pair of carbs (either 1 & 2 or 3 & 4) while the rear petcock outlet feeds fuel to the other pair of carbs.

kennedy3323
09-29-2008, 07:43 AM
After i put everything back together last night and primed her she started right up! Left choke on for about 30 secs and she purred like never before. I still need to check out the CCT spring and will this coming weekend.

I installed new Helix fuel lines and two inline filters.

I really appreciate every ones feedback.

-James

forsaken
09-29-2008, 12:50 PM
since your bike is a pre, id pull the filters off. they have been known to cause problems with starving the carbs

kennedy3323
09-30-2008, 07:29 AM
since your bike is a pre, id pull the filters off. they have been known to cause problems with starving the carbs

Duly Noted, but as of now *knocks on wood* she runs very well with the filters. I'll keep a look out for any possible problems.