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View Full Version : Your begining lessons AND To jet or not to jet..


Gkannon77
06-18-2007, 12:49 AM
First. I searched and found no definitive answer to what I wanted to know..

Secondly, other than trial and error (which normally ends with said error upon my poor bike), how did the lot of you motorcycle afficianadoes first learn to work confidently on your bikes engine. Because after browsing this forum index for the past 6 months, I realize I have alot to learn, including why a "jet kit" can aid in better preformance. This is all new to me as I have never worked on cars b4 either. I am saying this, becasue compared to most of you, I am cluless when it comes to the basics of engine work, although enthusiastic about learning. I have recently picked up a "mechanics for dummies" and hope it will give me more of an insight on what I plan on getting into.

And finally to the main question... In FL, should I get a jet kit or not. I have had my eyes on Ivans stage 1, but latley some local mechanics say not to. Apparently, I will have to constantly adjust the carbs afterwards. I know lots of you guys have your bikes jetted down here in FL, and wanted to know what you thought.

Any suggestions on either topic would be great. :D
Thanks KR!

steves
06-18-2007, 06:59 AM
I'm not in FL, but generally from the factory bikes are tuned very lean.

The jetkit allows you to get a little more power out of the bike for a low cost.

I'd also suggest that you look into the holeshot stage one kit as well...

http://www.holeshot.com/katana/ktn_stage1mod.shtml

GregS
06-18-2007, 07:19 AM
Congratulations on your efforts to learn about your bike. Early on you should by a Suzuki Service manual.
The "need" to jet also depends on the modifications your bike has. As "steves" pointed out modern carb bikes are jetted lean from the factory and usually respond well to jet kits. 3 brands come to mind as consistently better than others, Factory Pro, Ivan's and Holeshot.

reconstyle
06-18-2007, 08:16 AM
Um, whatever "mechanics" you are talking to, don't listen to them anymore. If they say you will have to be constantly "adjusting" your carbs if you get a jet kit, then that would mean you would still have to be constantly adjusting them even if you don't have one...what they said makes no sense at all.

I'm in florida, along with many other kat riders, and have no problems running a jet kit. Ivan's worked really well for me, I have tired the dyno kit, and it gave me problems, others have said that the factory pro kit is good as well. Dales kit for the katana doesn't come will needles, so although I'm sure it's a great kit, I don't know if it has as much potential as Ivan's of the factory pro.

KatanaSoldier
06-18-2007, 08:42 AM
I run a factory jet kit and it works great for me.

steves
06-18-2007, 09:32 AM
Um, whatever "mechanics" you are talking to, don't listen to them anymore. If they say you will have to be constantly "adjusting" your carbs if you get a jet kit, then that would mean you would still have to be constantly adjusting them even if you don't have one...what they said makes no sense at all.

I'm in florida, along with many other kat riders, and have no problems running a jet kit. Ivan's worked really well for me, I have tired the dyno kit, and it gave me problems, others have said that the factory pro kit is good as well. Dales kit for the katana doesn't come will needles, so although I'm sure it's a great kit, I don't know if it has as much potential as Ivan's of the factory pro.

Dale said he didn't need needles to get a decent result. :dunno:

bigbike-r
06-18-2007, 11:47 AM
when i first started learning about bikes i was constantly trying to remember parts names and where it went on the bike and why it was there..... i found the simplest way to learn, is by having a simple basic knowledge as to how your bike works, and how each part of the bike is there to do something and how it does it....... if you look at a bike the first time you kinda think whooaw where do i start whats this and that should that be there??

but when you examine it its really just a heap of cogs and wires and is really basic as far as technology goes.... basically upon turning the key and turning her over, the starter motor gets the crank turning wich pulls the pistons down, this causes a vacum through the carbs wich in turn sucks in the air and petrol, as the crank is on its way back up it closes the valves so it all cant escape.... at the same time the spark plug is about to spark causing the whole lot to explode forcing the pistons down and opening the exhaust valve to let it all out beginning the process again ... or something like that.... then get to look at gears etc basically just a set of cogs and a selector wich are kind of the same principle as a push bike bigger cog up top of gears whereas the 1st gear wil be smaller to give more force when taking off etc...... they really are basic and once you start to understand a little better you will see what i mean i think if you read a little on your engine to get the understanding of whats going on will be enough for you to start some work, its at this point you will learn a lot, the hands on aproach has endless amounts of information for you to absorb :) .......... and im going now cos im just waffling on and youve probably stopped reading a long time ago :lol:

Gkannon77
06-18-2007, 05:02 PM
Um, whatever "mechanics" you are talking to, don't listen to them anymore.....I'm in florida, along with many other kat riders, and have no problems running a jet kit."

Good, cause I didn't want to believe them anyways. I'm going to read up and buy a kit, and well, give it a try. I can't ruin my bike, right? Actually I probably could, but the service manual is coming and hopfully it will help some, along with Cybers How to Jet page.

:) .......... and im going now cos im just waffling on and youve probably stopped reading a long time ago :lol:

On the contrary, bro! Thats what I like to hear! How people learned and how they interpreted it! I'm sure I'm not the only mechanical newbie here, although it does seem so.. :lol:, but that type of simplified generality can be helpful to us all! It made sense too.

More? anyone? :pray

reconstyle
06-18-2007, 09:56 PM
Um, whatever "mechanics" you are talking to, don't listen to them anymore. If they say you will have to be constantly "adjusting" your carbs if you get a jet kit, then that would mean you would still have to be constantly adjusting them even if you don't have one...what they said makes no sense at all.

I'm in florida, along with many other kat riders, and have no problems running a jet kit. Ivan's worked really well for me, I have tired the dyno kit, and it gave me problems, others have said that the factory pro kit is good as well. Dales kit for the katana doesn't come will needles, so although I'm sure it's a great kit, I don't know if it has as much potential as Ivan's of the factory pro.

Dale said he didn't need needles to get a decent result. :dunno:

I'm not doubting Dale at ALL, don't get me wrong, the man is a freakin genius when it comes to the oil cooled zuki motors. He thoroughly tests ALL his products on his dyno in house, and road tests them as well. He has by far the best customer service that I've ever had to deal with.

His kit uses the K&N filter, which may or may not have a role in why he uses stock needles, I'm not sure. But I can guarantee you that if you buy anything from him you wont be let down.

If you need help with tuning his kit, you can call him up and he will tell you exactly what you need to do to get your bike running 100%.

The only downside is that his kit is kind of pricey compared to the others...

Gkannon77
06-18-2007, 11:38 PM
Dale? Does he own Holeshot or something?

md86
06-19-2007, 01:48 AM
Dale? Does he own Holeshot or something?
Yes .
http://www.amazon.com/Essential-Guide-Motorcycle-Maintenance/dp/1884313418/ref=sr_1_4/102-3028601-9772907?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1182235650&sr=1-4
Good book to help you undertsand a bit more about how stuff works .

The CyberPoet
06-19-2007, 02:24 AM
I use Ivan's and I'm in Tampa, and I'm 100% satisfied. I've tried other kits on the 98+ Kats previously, and Ivan's kit stands head and shoulders above the others I've tried.

If you can bring yourself to ride over to Tampa the next time we have a mechanics day here, you can learn to many things yourself with knowledgible people standing over your shoulder telling you what to do step-by-step. We can install the Ivan's in about 15 minutes (once the fairings are off), and then sync the carbs up right away.

As for the who-what-why of jet kits, here's the most straight forward answer I can offer (in part repeating what steves said):
(A) Your manufacturer (Suzuki) has to meet specific EPA requirements to be permitted to import the motorcycle into the USA. To do this, they have to set the jetting very lean (approximately 14.7:1 air:fuel-vapor ratio, normally written as Fuel-Air ratio). This particular ratio is very good for maximizing gas mileage and getting complete burns of all the hydrocarbons in "idealized" fuels.
(B) On the other hand, all of the jetkits out there target a fuel-air ratio of 13.2:1 as their ideal, because this ratio produces the highest amount of power (torque) possible from any gasoline engine (using the same "idealized gasoline" as a basis). Running the higher amount of fuel per air increases the responsiveness of the throttle and the acceleration of the bike, but returns lower gas mileage and does create more pollution.

Hope that clarifies things a bit.

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

Gkannon77
06-19-2007, 09:21 AM
It does. And I'm going to check my local book store for the book by Zimmerman. Thanks CP, i apreciate you sharing your 2 cents

bswasey
06-19-2007, 11:24 AM
I just have years of experience working on cars, motorcycles, snowmobiles and just about anything else with an engine. I also took classes in high school, got Honda (cars) certified and worked a ta dealership. For the most part, I'm self taught. They aren't too scary once you get past the wiring. I find the most difficult thing is what troubles most people and thats usually "getting to that damn bolt wedged between the engine and frame" or rusted bolts. Don't be afraid to ask questions.

Gkannon77
06-19-2007, 08:05 PM
Any mechanical No-No's as far as working on the Katana, as apposed to other bikes. Things that you may of, "learned the hard way" that you want to share?
A simple example for me was when I was doing some cosmetic work, I forgot to re-attatch the key unlock mechanism before putting my seat back on. So I had to drill through my undertail to get to the switch. That sucked, but I definatley won't forget that again!

md86
06-20-2007, 03:17 AM
Oh , there are PLENTY of no-no's , but the RELEVANT ones :thinking ..... :dunno:
Lesse , don't drop sockets down into your engine when the plugs are out or the head's off . That's bad .

helo_pilot
06-22-2007, 02:51 PM
A good one for float needle replacement- When a carb float needle goes bad, and a cylinder gets full of fuel, get it out by pulling the plug out and momentarily pressing the starter.
But do NOT have your son standing by the front wheel to watch, as he gets a face full of fuel! :o Only to then watch the top of the engine catch fire as the fuel comes back down.

Good thing his mother wasn't watching. :lol:

helo_pilot
06-22-2007, 03:16 PM
Gkannon77 - To answer your original question, I remember clearly back in the 80's, when I had a GS 750ES, and my bros were riding GPZ 750's, and CB 750's, and we all wanted pipes. That was it. Loud pipes. My Kerker was awesome. I remember the whole reason for jetting was the pipe.

So when we got those pipes, the jet kits were next. All I remember from those days was Dynojet. This was way before FI, and the DJ kits took quite a bit of trial and error.

But, it wasn't overly complicated, and they were pretty easy to tune. The performance gains in those days was significant, but I am not so sure about modern bikes. I know I put a DJ kit in the '91 750 Kat I have now because of the V&H Supersport pipe. And they still take just as long to tune. I have taken the carbs off so many times, that I have had to replace the clamps that fit around the rubber boots on the intake manifold. They were stripped out.

Funny. The big four putting all that money into R&D, engineering, and testing. Sure enough though, Sammy Sportbike buys a brand new rig, ditches the stock pipe, throws some massive jets in his carbs, and it never runs the same.

bswasey
06-22-2007, 05:00 PM
Start off with small and easy tasks first then work your way into more complicated things. Read through manuals first several times and even if your bored, just flip through them. Also, you want GOOD tools, they don't have to be expesive Snap On or Mac Tools, but don't get the cheap
"disposable," $20 complete tool kits either. Many of those sockets are essentially one time use only then they round out. You'll be rounding bolt heads and screws left and right. Good starter tools can be bought at Walmart. Their Stanley and PM (Popular Mechanics) are pretty decent quality. If you have questions about stuff, don't be afraid to ask someone or call a dealer. Yes they want your money, but a good dealer will give you advice and tell you how to do something too.