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View Full Version : New Torque Wrench Adaptor?


The CyberPoet
02-21-2007, 12:13 AM
http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/parts/08-0380/


http://www.motionpro.com/images/items/08-0380.jpg

I've never seen that before -- it'll let you use any box/open wrench or allen-key with a 3/8" drive torque wrench & supposedly still get a valid reading???

Hmmmm...

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

md86
02-21-2007, 12:23 AM
So let us know how that works out for ya . :lol: :dunno:

DreKat
02-21-2007, 05:53 AM
good luck with that and keep us posted.

BarMatt80
02-21-2007, 06:23 AM
i guess a cheaper way that using a crowfoot. i have seen snapon pieces that they call a converter to 12 point for torquing. it is 3-4 inches long with 3/8" hole for the torque wrench and the 12 pt hole on the other.

JZ67
02-21-2007, 06:37 AM
That little gizmo is not cheap. More expensive than the torque wrench I bought.

StevieB
02-21-2007, 08:55 AM
Reading WOULD be changed, based on how far from the bolt the adapter was put on the wrench. Think mechanical advantage.

And if it's expensive, why bother? Better to go with the crow's foot you need, or a set of 'em. More useful for other uses, too.

Black_peter
02-21-2007, 01:36 PM
i guess a cheaper way that using a crowfoot. .

I'm disappointed CP that you even question that the reading would be valid!
As stated the lever is increased by the delta between the center of the socket point and the nut center. Crows feet would also change it but not as much as this adapter. An unknowing mechanic might add 6 inches to his lever and not only over torquing a bolt but possibly breaking/striping the nut/bolt. I also don't see what this adapter buys you. Seems clumsy to me...

suzukisportrider2004
02-21-2007, 04:21 PM
seems you wo9uld need to cailbraite it before every use

Wingspan
02-21-2007, 05:12 PM
Reading WOULD be changed, based on how far from the bolt the adapter was put on the wrench. Think mechanical advantage.


As stated the lever is increased by the delta between the center of the socket point and the nut center. Crows feet would also change it but not as much as this adapter.

Not if you mount them to the wrench at 90 degrees to the handle... :wink:

Black_peter
02-22-2007, 07:23 AM
I think he might be right
:shock:

Wingspan
02-22-2007, 08:21 AM
I think he might be right
:shock:

I know I am. ;-)

This is basic knowledge for mechanics. If you put the crowsfoot or adapter at 90 degrees to the wrench, you aren't changing the length of the arm. This will work as long as the drive hole in the adapter or crowsfoot is along the centerline of the wrench.

No math and no recalibration required. :-D

StevieB
02-22-2007, 08:42 AM
I think he might be right
:shock:

I know I am. ;-)

This is basic knowledge for mechanics. If you put the crowsfoot or adapter at 90 degrees to the wrench, you aren't changing the length of the arm. This will work as long as the drive hole in the adapter or crowsfoot is along the centerline of the wrench.

No math and no recalibration required. :-D

I don't think so. Consider this example (exasarated to make the point):

Spec'ed torque: 200 inch-pounds.
length of torque wrench: 20 inches.
Arm strength needed, at very end of torque wrench, to get that wrench to torque to that spec: 10 pounds of pull.
Simplified math: 20 inches X 10 pounds = 200 inch pounds.

Add tool described, but make it 20 inches long, just to keep the math simple:

Bolt end of torque wrench is now farther away from bolt (20 inches), and handle end of wrench is also farther away from bolt (I estimate about 27 inches). Mechanical advantage is gained, for torque but not speed. 10 pound arm pull on wrench shows up on torque meter as 200 in. pounds, but is greater at bolt.

No?

I admit, I didn't do the math throughly on this one, no time to get that deep into it this morning. Way back in my freshmen year of college, I had this same argument with my professor- I took the same stand you did, he showed me I was wrong. He also showed me a special Ford tool/ adapter that was required for access, to torque some bolt on a Ford part- it had a torque correction factor stamped on it. Same correction factor was in the shop manual.

KatanaSoldier
02-22-2007, 09:01 AM
Nice concept

tzortn
02-22-2007, 09:02 AM
Not if you mount them to the wrench at 90 degrees to the handle... :wink:

I do not get it. How do you use a wrench if it is at 90 degrees to the handle? Any chance you can post a sketch to explain what you mean?

Wingspan
02-22-2007, 09:13 AM
I don't think so. Consider this example (exasarated to make the point):




Go back and re-read what I posted. If you put the adapter at 90 degrees to the handle of the wrench YOU DO NOT CHANGE THE LENGTH OF THE ARM. If you don't change the length of the arm, you do not change the amount of torque applied.

The example you gave is correct, if you keep the adapter parallel to the torque wrench, however that is not what I said to do.

Here is a quick sketch of the concept. The blue is the torque wrench, the adapter is red. In the top example, the torque value would be altered. However, if you put the adapter (or crowsfoot, etc) at 90 degrees to the wrench, the length of the arm is unchanged. You do not need any conversion factors or recalibration.

tzortn
02-22-2007, 09:56 AM
But how do you actually attach it? It looks like in your example the crows foot will not wrap around the nut ot bolt head. Instead it seems like the foot would arch over the head. Is that what you are doing?

I am so confused. :scratch

Wingspan
02-22-2007, 10:58 AM
I'm at work right now, I'll take a picture when I get home in a few hours. ;)

Wingspan
02-22-2007, 02:59 PM
Ok, here we go with a few pics. :-D

Here's a torque wrench with a crows foot attached. Note what when you put the crowsfoot at a 90 degree angle, then length of the lever is unchanged. For this reason, you do not need any sort of correction or recalibration.

http://photos.imageevent.com/wingspan/misc/large/twrench%20003.jpg

From the other side:

http://photos.imageevent.com/wingspan/misc/small/twrench%20005.jpg

And finally, in use:

http://photos.imageevent.com/wingspan/misc/small/twrench%20007.jpg

This is a basic standard practice for mechanics and used around the world. There are times when you can't do this because of clearance issues, etc. In those cases you should do the math to determine a correction.

There are a few online tools to make it easier such as this one:

http://www.norbar.com/torquewrenchextensioncalculator.php

tzortn
02-22-2007, 03:04 PM
I see said the blind man.

suzukisportrider2004
02-22-2007, 03:42 PM
your still off set more then a socket any way you put it on there........

Wingspan
02-22-2007, 04:11 PM
your still off set more then a socket any way you put it on there........

Not in the example I've shown.

StevieB
02-23-2007, 09:14 AM
I don't think so. Consider this example (exasarated to make the point):

Go back and re-read what I posted. If you put the adapter at 90 degrees to the handle of the wrench YOU DO NOT CHANGE THE LENGTH OF THE ARM.

Again, I must disagree. You DO change the distance from end of torque wrench to bolt, thus the effective length of the arm. Pathagorian theorem is used here:

A = length of torque wrench (in your sketch, blue)
B = length of adapter (red in your sketch)
C = distance between handle of wrench and bolt.

A2 + B2 = C2 (where "2" is "squared"- dont know how to raise the 2 on this forum.)

If A = 10 feet, B = 2 feet: (long, I know, but to illustrate the point)
A2 + B2 = C2
100 + 4 = 104
Squre root of 104 = 10.2 feet.
C - A = greater distance that will cause a torque wrench read error- in this case, 0.2 feet.

Sorry I didn't think of Pathaoreous yesterday- Greeks and mathmaticians everywhere are no doubt very angry with me this morning! :D

Thanks for posting the sketch, btw. It makes this more understandable for all of us, even you and I.

tzortn
02-23-2007, 10:50 AM
Steve, you are a little off. You do not take into account the reduction in force being applied along the lever arm created by the hypotenuse. using the hypotenuse rotates the lever arm which causes a reduction in the force actually being applied to the lever arm. Take a look at the diagram and write up for a full explanation. The sketch is crude, but it should get the point across.

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/4029/torquepy6.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=torquepy6.jpg)

StevieB
02-23-2007, 03:34 PM
Okay, too late in the day, at the end of the week, for THAT much thought. :roll:

I concede, if only so I can start my weekend. :D

suzukisportrider2004
02-23-2007, 05:25 PM
Steve, you are a little off. You do not take into account the reduction in force being applied along the lever arm created by the hypotenuse. using the hypotenuse rotates the lever arm which causes a reduction in the force actually being applied to the lever arm. Take a look at the diagram and write up for a full explanation. The sketch is crude, but it should get the point across.

http://img296.imageshack.us/img296/4029/torquepy6.th.jpg (http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=torquepy6.jpg)

see this is what i was talking about even tho i cant see that being a a huge number, no more the simply placing your hand in a diffrence place when you grab the handle

Wade-Kat600
02-23-2007, 06:06 PM
HAHHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHA ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

You guys are friggin halarious!!!!! I love forums like this one! LOL

Engineering 101......but how could we get it to be .02 ft lbs more accurate?

tzortn
02-23-2007, 10:21 PM
You guys are correct that we are pretty much splitting hairs here. I needed something interesting to do today between meetings.

suzukisportrider2004 - Actually torque wrenches are designed to take your hand location of out the equation. The head on a clicker type wrench and the handle on a beam type are placed on a pivot. That assures that the load created by your hand is transferred to the lever arm at a single point.

350gtboi
02-24-2007, 09:38 PM
http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/parts/08-0380/


http://www.motionpro.com/images/items/08-0380.jpg

I've never seen that before -- it'll let you use any box/open wrench or allen-key with a 3/8" drive torque wrench & supposedly still get a valid reading???

Hmmmm...

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet

That tool is on sale this month in the Mac Tools Catalog for 39.99 on page 24.
https://www.mactools.com/portal/site/mactools/menuitem.c5a0dc20e1a10b7c778aad100170c3a0

Black_peter
02-25-2007, 08:27 AM
You guys are correct that we are pretty much splitting hairs here. .

I'm not so sure.. The thing I still have a problem with is that while it can be used right, it can be used wrong... Very wrong.

Personally I think Cyber posted this just to get us all worked up. Notice he has yet to return? This was the CP version of farting then leaving the room.
:lmao

tzortn
02-25-2007, 10:18 AM
I agree with you 100%. I hate seeing someone misusing a tool.

We all know what a troublemaker CP can be. :lol:

Wingspan
02-27-2007, 11:35 AM
I'm not so sure.. The thing I still have a problem with is that while it can be used right, it can be used wrong... Very wrong.



The same can be said for just about every tool in existance. :wink:

Black_peter
02-27-2007, 01:25 PM
I'm not so sure.. The thing I still have a problem with is that while it can be used right, it can be used wrong... Very wrong.



The same can be said for just about every tool in existance. :wink:

True enough, except that a torque wrench is supposed to:
a. ensure a fastener is tight enough.
b. ensure a fastener is not too tight.

This tool could fail part "b"... Stripped oil pan nut anyone?

md86
03-01-2007, 01:02 AM
I'm not so sure.. The thing I still have a problem with is that while it can be used right, it can be used wrong... Very wrong.



The same can be said for just about every tool in existance. :wink:
But I LOVE my big screwdriver/prybar/hammer :dunno: . :lol:

Black_peter
03-01-2007, 06:19 AM
But I LOVE my big screwdriver/prybar/hammer :dunno: . :lol:

IMO? that is not misuse.. Every tool box should have one of those.
Now if you're using it to remove your carbs....
not so good.

tzortn
03-01-2007, 06:59 AM
But I LOVE my big screwdriver/prybar/hammer :dunno: . :lol:

That just sounds dirty.

Sometimes you have to improvise and I can understand that. I can also understand officially designating a tool for abuse i.e. the old screw drive prybar combo. It does kill me ot see someone take a new Snap On flat head and use it as a pry bar.

md86
03-02-2007, 02:01 AM
Funny part ? That screwdriver STILL looks new ! :lol: And yes , that's my "abuse" tool . Only the handle shows signs of wear .